Posted on 07/14/2013 3:02:43 PM PDT by NYer
That's not accurate at all...It matches perfectly...
Where did I say heaven was *IN* space? Please provide the link to the post.
Did you make the claim that a living body can't with stand the ravages of space.
I did say that. And just how far is a human body capable of going before it dies from lack of oxygen and the blood boils in the vacuum of space?
It is a simple question. Where did they get the information for the concept of the Trinity? If you are unable or don’t know just say so.
No answer yet, eh?
“Again - where’s the evidence for your opinion that the Saints are dead and not in heaven?”
I’ve never made that claim.
I’d ask about your evidence about praying to departed saints, but we’ve found nothing but dry wells there...
You have the audacity to claim someone else is evading a question?
Nope, no answer yet. Curious isn’t it?
“Is there any evidence for your ‘cultic origin’? Apparently no evidence >>> evidence.”
Just the history of the Catholic branch of the Christian Church.
“There is evidence for the communion of saints in terms of the fathers of the church as early as the third century. But unfortunately that doesn’t meet your wholly arbitrary origin just like the doctrine of the trinity doesn’t meet your wholly arbitrary opinion.”
300 years of silence ... And then it becomes a part of practice? Clearly not Christian, which means the origin is outside Christianity. Since cults are fascinated with death, it is the likely source. Whatever the source was - and you do not know - it wasn’t Christian
Right here is where you made the claim that heaven is in space. Do you read what you write?
JCB:That’s gonna get a [[citation needed]].
Well, here you go. From vatican.va if that is good enough and not considered some *anti-Catholic hate site*
As for "extra Ecclesiam nulla salus" (outside the Church there is no salvation)
Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extra_Ecclesiam_nulla_salus
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm
"Outside the Church there is no salvation"
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
• Pope Pius IX, Amantissimus: “There are other, almost countless, proofs drawn from the most trustworthy witnesses which clearly and openly testify with great faith, exactitude, respect and obedience that all who want to belong to the true and only Church of Christ must honor and obey this Apostolic See and Roman Pontiff." Pope Pius IX, Amantissimus (On The Care Of The Churches), Encyclical promulgated on April 8, 1862, # 3.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/P9AMANT2.HTM
• Pope Pius IX (1846–1878), Encyclical Singulari Quidem March 17, 1856): “There is only one true, holy, Catholic Church, which is the Apostolic Roman Church. There is only one See founded on Peter by the word of the Lord, outside of which we cannot find either true faith or eternal salvation. He who does not have the Church for a mother cannot have God for a father, and whoever abandons the See of Peter on which the Church is established trusts falsely that he is in the Church. (On the Unity of the Catholic Church)
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9singul.htm
• Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam: “We declare, say, define, and pronounce [ex cathedra] that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” "If, therefore, the Greeks or others say that they are not committed to Peter and to his successors, they necessarily say that they are not of the sheep of Christ, since the Lord says that there is only one fold and one shepherd (Jn.10:16). Whoever, therefore, resists this authority, resists the command of God Himself. " — Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam (Promulgated November 18, 1302)
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/b8-unam.html
• Fifth Lateran Council: Moreover, since subjection to the Roman pontiff is necessary for salvation for all Christ's faithful, as we are taught by the testimony of both sacred scripture and the holy fathers, and as is declared by the constitution of pope Boniface VIII of happy memory, also our predecessor, which begins Unam sanctam, we therefore...renew and give our approval to that constitution... Fifth Lateran CouncilSession 11, 19 December 1516,
http://www.piar.hu/councils/ecum18.htm
• Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos: Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors. Did not the ancestors of those who are now entangled in the errors of Photius [the eastern “Orthodox” schismatics] and the reformers, obey the Bishop of Rome, the chief shepherd of souls?...Let none delude himself with obstinate wrangling. For life and salvation are here concerned...” Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos, PTC:873) The Promotion of True Religious Unity), 11, Encyclical promulgated on January 6, 1928, #11;
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_19280106_mortalium-animos_en.html
• Pope Eugene IV and the Council of Florence: "The sacrosanct Roman Church...firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that..not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life but will depart `into everlasting fire...unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that..no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”— Pope Eugene IV and the Council of Florence (Seventeenth Ecumenical Council), Cantate Domino, Bull promulgated on February 4, 1441 (Florentine style), [considered infallible by some]
I guess ALL includes me...
Departed saints ask, "How long until you judge...inhabitants of the earth?" (Rev. 6:10)
That is, how long before you judge the inhabitants of the earth who killed us...
There is no indication those souls under the altar knew that there were more left on earth that would have to give up their lives...These were killed and said ok God, now it's time to do something...
And there is no indication that there was any communication between those souls and the souls or live bodies on earth...There is no indication that those souls could see anything on earth from where they are at...
CynicalBear asks how do we know these departed saints "were also concerned with those on earth?"
Ummm...maybe the word "Earth" provided a hefty clue???
Actually, no...Had those souls been aware or concerned about live Christians still on earth, they likely wouldn't have pleaded with God to wipe out the inhabitants of the earth...
CynicalBear contends this couldn't possibly be so...why, there just can't be any true church left on earth to be "killed just as they had been"...
Why? 'Cause my fave "tribulation teacher" told me so! ["The church is not on this earth during the Tribulation." -- CB]
Naaa...There won't be any of the church left on earth during the Tribulation but there will be a whole bunch of Jews getting saved during that time...
There are going to be a lot of shocked and saddened people right after the rapture I think. What a shock when they realize they were part of the scoffers crowd rather than the rapture crowd.
Chapter and verse?
So much evidence yet so many denials.
That's nonsense...And which version of Nicaea do you lean towards; 325, 381, the Western version??? You guys and the Orthodox can even agree upon which one is the legitimate one...
I wouldn't waste my time with Nicaea...I have the words of God...
Chapter and verse?
The first thing I thought when I saw that comment was that this person has been deeply programmed by the cult.
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
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