Posted on 07/04/2013 8:54:37 AM PDT by Colofornian
St. George Mormon Temple Haunted? Did the Declaration of Independence signers appear as ghosts to a later Lds 'prophet'?
Without saying his name, Mormon leaders and grassroots Mormons daily reference Wilford Woodruff when they interact with non-Mormons and the media.
How so?
Well, they like to tell others how polygamy is a supposed bygone of another era; how a certain Lds "prophet" in 1890 put the kabosh on it...or, at least, started a mainstream Mormon move toward monogamy.
Yet, there's a little-known episode that this same Wilford Woodruff said that occurred in the 1870s -- before becoming the head "prophet" of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In the last two weeks before he left the St. George, Utah temple, we have at least four accounts that claim that the spirits of the signers of the Declaration of Independence -- with George Washington -- having appeared to Woodruff.
Is the temple haunted? Were these indeed ghosts of the signers?
Could they have been demons in disguise as ghosts?
Or was the one even contemporary Mormons appeal to as the "authoritative" voice of God on polygamy vs. monogamy perhaps given to wild religious fantasies?
Furthermore, does the official Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints play down this occultic episode as being just a small event in the life of Woodruff?
Or are the sources questionable?
The answer to these last two questions is: Not at all. In fact anybody can go to Lds.org and find Lesson 39 of the Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Gospel Doctrine Teachers Manual, where they would see a Sunday School lesson plan that actually plays it up and highlights Woodruff's claims...giving credence that contemporary Mormons buy into it! -- The Hearts of the Children Shall Turn to Their Fathers
In fact, in the lesson plan detailing the account, Mormon church curricula writers then have their teachers ask the question:
What can we learn from these two stories? (Answers could include that those who are dead are anxious for us to perform ordinances for them and that we should be diligent in our efforts to redeem the dead.)
So the Mormon church actually see such occultic ghostly/demonic encounters as evidential of baptizing dead spirits!
Furthermore, Brigham Young University also includes the account as part of their curricula for incoming freshmen who have taken their "Religious Education Intro to LDS Family History (Genealogy)" course. In the BYU version of the account, the comment includes how "those men who laid the foundation of this American Government and signed the Declaration of Independence were the best spirits the God of Heaven could find on the face of the earth. They were choice spirits, not wicked men."
Yet Lds doctrine is that ALL men and ALL church members of the 18th century were "apostates." Joseph Smith claimed that when entities appeared to him -- supposedly early in the 19th century -- that he wasn't to join any of the churches that the founding fathers of our country were part of...plus Smith specifically said that these unnamed entities told him that "all" professors (professing believers) were "corrupt" (see Lds "scripture," Joseph Smith History, Pearl of Great Price, verses 18-20). How could the signers of the Declaration of Independence be both "choice spirits, not wicked" -- and "corrupt?"
Official Mormon doctrine emerged -- a doctrine that remains to this day -- that the historic Christian church went into complete apostasy well before the Founding Fathers came along and remained in apostasy in the 18th century. How can BYU label "apostates" the founding fathers? How can they "play it both ways" -- that the Founding Fathers were both apostates and "choice spirits, not wicked?"
Four accounts of The Haunting of St. George Temple:
1870s (Last two weeks before Woodruff left the temple):
Account #1 (BYU curricula): The following account of Wilford Woodruff helps demonstrate the importance of this work to those who are on the other side of the veil. I am going to bear my testimony to this assembly, if I never do it again in my life, that those men who laid the foundation of this American Government and signed the Declaration of Independence were the best spirits the God of Heaven could find on the face of the earth. They were choice spirits, not wicked men. George Washington and all the men that labored for the purpose were inspired of the Lord. Another thing I am going to say here, because I have a right to say it. Every one of those men that signed the Declaration of Independence with General Washington called upon me, as an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, in the Temple at St. George two consecutive nights, and demanded at my hands that I should go forth and attend to the ordinances of the house of God for them. Men are here, I believe, that know of thisBrothers J. D. T. McAllister, David H. Cannon and James C. Bleak. Brother McAllister baptized me for all these men, and I then told these brethren that it was their duty to go into the Temple and labor until they got endowments for all of them. They did it. Would those spirits have called upon me, as an Elder in Israel, to perform that work if they had not been noble spirits before God? They would not. I bear this testimony because it is true. The spirit of God bore record to myself and the brethren while we were laboring in that way (Lundwall, 1947, p. 87). Source: Religious Education C261 Intro to LDS Family History (Genealogy)
Account #2 (personal journal of Chief Record of the St. George temple): Temple and witnessed the appearance of the Spirits of the Signers... .the spirits of the Presidents...And also others, such as Martin Luther and John Wesley...Who came to Wilford Woodruff and demanded that their baptism and endowments be done. Wilford Woodruff was baptized for all of them. While I and Brothers J.D.T. McAllister and David H Cannon (who were witnesses to the request) were endowed for them. These men.. ..laid the foundation of this American Gov., and signed the Declaration of Independence and were the best spirits the God of Heaven could find on the face of the earth to perform this work. Martin Luther and John Wesley helped to release the people from religious bondage that held them during the dark ages. They also prepared the peoples hearts so they would be ready to receive the restored gospel when the Lord sent it again to men on the earth. (Personal journal of James Godson Bleak-Chief Recorder of the St. George Temple) p. 2 of this pdf: Vision of Former Eminent Men in The St. George Temple (By Glen W. Chapman, Jan, 2002)
Account #3 (Journal of Discourses): Every one of those men that signed the Declaration of Independence with General Washington, called upon me as an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, in the Temple at St. George, two consecutive nights, and demanded at my hands that I should go forth and attend to the ordinances of the House of God for them. Men are here, I believe, that know of this, Brother J. D. T. McAllister, David H. Cannon and James S. Bleak. Brother McAllister baptized me for all those men, and then I told these brethren that it was their duty to go into the temple and labor until they had got endowments for all of them. They did it. Would those spirits have called upon me as an elder of Israel, to perform that work, if they had not been noble spirits before God? They would not. JoD, vol. 19, pp. 229-231, Sept. 16, 1877
Account #4 (Official Lds curricula): Explain that for a period of time, President Woodruff served as president of the temple in St. George, Utah. It was in that temple that endowments for the dead were performed for the first time in this dispensation (see Doctrines of Salvation, 2:171). While serving there, President Woodruff was visited by the spirits of many eminent men who had died. Invite a class member to share the following account by President Woodruff: The spirits of the dead gathered around me, wanting to know why we did not redeem them. Said they, You have had the use of the Endowment House for a number of years, and yet nothing has ever been done for us. We laid the foundation of the government you now enjoy, and we
remained true to it and were faithful to God. These were the signers of the Declaration of Independence [of the United States of America], and they waited on me for two days and two nights.
I straightway went into the baptismal font and called upon Brother McAllister to baptize me for the signers of the Declaration of Independence, and fifty other eminent men, making one hundred in all, including John Wesley, Columbus, and others (The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, sel. G. Homer Durham [1946], 16061). What can we learn from these two stories? (Answers could include that those who are dead are anxious for us to perform ordinances for them and that we should be diligent in our efforts to redeem the dead.) ((Lds Sunday School lesson from "Doctrine and Covenants and Church History," "The Hearts of the Children Shall Turn to Their Fathers," p. 3)
Source: Lesson 39 of the Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Gospel Doctrine Teachers Manual -- The Hearts of the Children Shall Turn to Their Fathers
When I walk past the graveyard, in the middle of the night, whistling - I never look back; either!
Psst!
You spelled 'an unwinnable' wrong...
Typical MORMON behavior found amoung those whose doubts are VERY nearly catching up to them.
Shut your eyes, ears, mind and RUN away!
GNAT????
Great LDS teachings??
Your Bishop wants a word with you!!
BTW; you spelled FACT wrong.
Of COURSE you are!
You CANNOT defend historical FACTS; so you'd like the FACTfinder to just disappear!
(No WONDER so many Utahns are on PROZAC!)
I made ribeye steaks and half pound hamburgers sizzle on the grill yesterday. Montreal Steak Spice liberally applied. Medium high heat.
Fresh pineapple and watermelon that I sliced up just prior to supper. A whole bunch of yums.
We live in Iowa. No Prozac here. Lots of beer and whisky, though. Does that count?
Unfortunately, you'll also never see the skeptical viewpoint there either (that there's no reliable evidence that ghosts even exist in the first place).
Good for you.
However, I’m not talking about the people, I’m talking about the weird, false, empty feeling, of the temple’s I visited - both Mormon and Masonic.
Fault finding?
All I did is to quote from one of the EXACT same sources your church-owned Deseret News cited on Wednesday, July 3, 2013:
Founding of America and LDS gospel Restoration are divinely connected
ALL: If you jump to page two of that article, DesNews writer Trent Toone cites the same exact quote that the BYU curricula uses (see account #1 in my thread's piece):
In the April 1898 general conference, President Wilford Woodruff declared: "I am going to bear my testimony that those men who laid the foundation of this American government and signed the Declaration of Independence were the best spirits the God of Heaven could find on the face of the earth. They were choice spirits, not wicked men. General (George) Washington and all the men that labored for the purpose were inspired of the Lord."
So, apparently, per JustTheTruth, it's "OK" for the church-owned DesNews to cite what one of their "prophets" said at the April 1898 General Conference on July 3, 2013. But if I -- a "Gentile" as described by Mormons -- cite the same source on July 4, 2013...duck!
ALL: What's also interesting is where DesNews journalist Trent Toone chose to end the quote from Woodruff...re: "George Washington and all the men who labored for the purpose were inspired of the Lord."
What did Toone leave out from what Woodruff said next...?
Well, let's pick up the quote...Imagine being a Mormon...sitting in the April 1898 General Conference:
Woodruff: Another thing I am going to say here, because I have a right to say it. Every one of those men that signed the Declaration of Independence with General Washington called upon me, as an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, in the Temple at St. George two consecutive nights, and demanded at my hands that I should go forth and attend to the ordinances of the house of God for them. Men are here, I believe, that know of thisBrothers J. D. T. McAllister, David H. Cannon and James C. Bleak. Brother McAllister baptized me for all these men, and I then told these brethren that it was their duty to go into the Temple and labor until they got endowments for all of them. They did it. Would those spirits have called upon me, as an Elder in Israel, to perform that work if they had not been noble spirits before God? They would not. I bear this testimony because it is true. The spirit of God bore record to myself and the brethren while we were laboring in that way.
There ya go. A Mormon "prophet" bearing his testimony that for two straight nights, demonic entities masquerading as the founders of our country begging for Mormons to necro-baptize them...as if that would make some difference in their lives even from a Mormon theological perspective.
These men weren't married in Mormon temples. They had no Mormon temple recommends. From a Mormon perspective, most of the Founding Fathers would "qualify" for the middle kingdom in heaven, anyway. A Mormon necro-baptism wouldn't get them into Celestialville, anyway.
YUM!
I grilled the hamburgers and weenies while SIL grilled the baby back ribs.
Yes; at least according to the Deseret article...
That’s all it is possible to do.
Who wants to tangle with a TarBaby?
I just HATE when there is that stuff going on!!
La, la, la ,la,....la,..la,..la,....laaaaaaaaaa.........
I can’t hear you!!!!!!
Come one, Elsie, someone is just trying to confuse them with the facts. That’s the only response option available to preserve their sanity if they persist in adhering to their religion.
However, Im not talking about the people, Im talking about the weird, false, empty feeling, of the temples I visited - both Mormon and Masonic.
While I can't speak of Masonic temples (never having been in one), I've been in churches & temples from Temple Square in SLC and Salisbury Cathedral to New Synagogue in Berlin and Notre Dame de Paris, and I've never gotten a "weird, false empty feeling" from any of them.
Mormon author Lucile Johnson wrote in her book Sunny Side Up: "Faultfinding is putting personal prejudice and personality in place of principle."
I place the principle of truth very high. Whereas many Lds hold anyone who consistently challenges the ISM of MormonISM with prejudicial contempt, I try not to take it personally...even when Lds comments are against the person. Let's keep talking principles, issues, history, doctrine, truth vs falsehood...shall we?
and...btw...are you finding fault with me again??? :-)
Let’s hear it for lapsed Mormons!
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