Posted on 06/22/2013 1:01:24 PM PDT by NYer
"If a teaching isnt explicit in the Bible, then we dont accept it as doctrine!" That belief, commonly known as sola scriptura, was a central component of all I believed as a Protestant. This bedrock Protestant teaching claims that Scripture alone is the sole rule of faith and morals for Christians. Diving deeper into its meaning to defend my Protestant faith against Catholicism about twenty years ago, I found that there was no uniform understanding of this teaching among Protestant pastors and no book I could read to get a better understanding of it.
What role does tradition play? How explicit does something have to be in Scripture before it can be called doctrine? Does Scripture tell us what is absolutely essential for us to believe as Christians? How can we determine the canon using sola scriptura? All these questions and more pointed to the central question: Where is sola scriptura itself taught in the Bible?
Most Protestants find it in 2 Timothy 3:16-17:
All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
The fact is that this passage (or any other) does not even hint at Scripture being the sole rule of faith. It says that Scripture is inspired and necessarya rule of faithbut in no way does it teach that Scripture alone is all one needs to determine the truth about faith and morals in the Church. My attempt to defend this bedrock teaching of Protestantism led me to conclude that sola scriptura is unreasonable, unbiblical, and unworkable.
Unreasonable
The Protestant appeal to the sole authority of Scripture to defend sola scriptura is a textbook example of circular reasoning, and it betrays an essential problem with the doctrine itself: It is contrary to reason. One cannot prove the inspiration of Scripture, or any text, from the text itself. The Book of Mormon, the Hindu Vedas, the Quran, the writings of Mary Baker Eddy, and other books all claim inspiration, but this does not make them inspired.
Closely related to this is the question of the canon. After all, if the Bible is the sole rule of faith, we first have to know which books are included in the Bible. Many books were believed to be inspired and, therefore, canonical in the early Church. How do we separate the wheat from the chaff? The Protestant must use the principle of sola scriptura to answer the question of the canon. It simply cannot be done.
I recall a conversation with a Protestant friend about this. He said, "The Holy Spirit guided the early Christians and helped them gather the canon of Scripture and declare it to be the inspired word of God, as Jesus said in John 16:13." I thought that that answer was more Catholic than Protestant. John 16:13 does tells us that the Spirit will lead the apostles, and by extension, the Church, into truth. But it has nothing to say about sola scriptura or the nature or number of books in the canon.
The Bible does not and cannot answer questions about its own inspiration or about the canon. Historically, the Church used sacred Tradition outside of Scripture as its criterion for the canon. The early Christians, many of whom disagreed on the issue, needed the Church in council to give an authoritative decree to settle the question. Those are the historical facts.
To put my friends argument into perspective, imagine a Catholic making a similar claim to demonstrate that Mary is the Mother of God. "We believe the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth and guided the early Christians to declare this truth." Would the Protestant respond with a hearty amen? No. He would be more likely to say, "Show me where it says in the Bible that Mary is the Mother of God!" The same question, of course, applies to Protestants concerning the canon: "Show me where the canon of Scripture is in the Bible!"
Will the Circle Be Unbroken?
The issues of the inspiration and canon of Scripture are the Achilles heel of any intellectual defense of sola scriptura. So weak are the biblical attempts at an answer that often the Protestant response just turns the argument against the Catholic. "How do you know Scripture is inspired? Your reasoning is just as circular. You say the Church is infallible because the inspired Scripture says so, then you say that Scripture is inspired and infallible because the Church says so!"
Not only is this not an answer, but it also misrepresents the Catholic position. Catholics do not claim the Church is infallible because Scripture says so. The Church is infallible because Jesus said so. The Church was established and functioning as the infallible spokesperson for the Lord decades before the New Testament was written.
It is true that we know Scripture to be inspired and canonical only because the Church has told us so. That is historical fact. Catholics reason to inspiration of Scripture through demonstrating first its historical reliability and the truth about Christ and the Church. Then we can reasonably rely upon the testimony of the Church to tell us the text is inspired. This is not circular reasoning. The New Testament is the most accurate and verifiable historical document in all of ancient history, but one cannot deduce from this that it is inspired.
The testimony of the New Testament is backed up by hundreds of works by early Christian and non-Christian writers. We have the first-century testimonies of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, the Church Fatherssome of whom were contemporaries of the apostlesand highly reliable non-Christian writers such as Suetonius, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, Josephus, and others, all testifying to the veracity of the Christ-event in various ways. It is on the basis of the historical evidence that we can say it is a historical fact that Jesus lived, died and was reported to be resurrected from the dead by over 500 eyewitnesses (1 Cor. 15:6). Many of these eyewitnesses went to their deaths testifying to the truth of the Resurrection of Christ (Luke 1:1-4; John 21:18-19; 24-25; Acts 1:1-11).
The historical record also tells us that Jesus Christ established a Churchnot a bookto be the foundation of the Christian faith (Matt. 16:15-18; 18:15-18; cf. Eph. 2:20; 3:10, 20-21; 4:11-15; 1 Tim. 3:15; Heb. 13:7, 17). Christ said of his Church, "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me" (Luke 10:16).
The many books that comprise the Bible never tell us that they are inspired, nor do they answer many other essential questions about their canonicity. Who can or cannot be the human authors of the texts? Who wrote them in the first place? But Scripture does tell usremarkably clearlythat Jesus established a kingdom on earth, the Church, with a hierarchy and the authority to speak for him (Luke 20:29-32; Matt. 10:40; 28:18-20). If we did not have Scripture, we would still have the Church. But without the Church, there would be no New Testament Scripture. It was members of this kingdom, the Church, who wrote Scripture, preserved its many texts, and eventually canonized it. Scripture alone could not do any of this.
The bottom line is that the truth of the Catholic Church is rooted in history. Jesus Christ is a historical person who gave his authority to his Church to teach, govern, and sanctify in his place. His Church gave us the New Testament with the authority of Christ. Reason rejects sola scriptura as a self-refuting principle.
Unbiblical
There are four problems with the defense of sola scriptura using 2 Timothy 3:16. First, it does not speak of the New Testament at all. The two verses preceding 2 Timothy 3:16 say:
But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
This passage does not refer to the New Testament. In fact, none of the New Testament books had been written when Timothy was a child. Claiming this verse as authentication for a book that had not been written yet goes far beyond what the text claims.
Second, 2 Timothy 3:16 does not claim Scripture to be the sole rule of faith for Christians. As a Protestant, I was guilty of seeing more than one sola in Scripture that simply did not exist. The Bible teaches justification by faith, and we Catholics believe it, but we do not believe in justification by faith alone, as Protestants do. Among other reasons, the Bible says that we are "justified by works and not by faith alone" (Jas. 2:24). There is no sola in 2 Timothy 3:16 either. The passage never claims Scripture to be the sole rule of faith.
James 1:4 illustrates the problem:
And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.
If we apply the same principle of exegesis to this text that the Protestant does to 2 Timothy 3:16, then we would have to say that all we need is patience (steadfastness) to be perfected. We dont need faith, hope, charity, the Church, baptism, or anything else.
Of course, any Christian knows this would be absurd. But Jamess emphasis on the central importance of patience is even stronger than Pauls emphasis on Scripture. The key is to see that there is not a sola in either text. Sola patientia would be just as wrong as sola scriptura.
Third, the Bible teaches that oral Tradition is equal to Scripture. It is silent when it comes to sola scriptura, but it is remarkably clear in teaching that oral Tradition is just as much the word of God as Scripture is. In what most scholars believe was the first book written in the New Testament, Paul said:
And we also thank God . . . that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God. (1 Thess. 2:13)
According to Paul, the spoken words of the apostles were the word of God. In fact, when Paul wrote his second letter to the Thessalonians, he urged Christians there to receive the oral and written Traditions as equally authoritative. This would be expected because both are the word of God:
So, then, brethren stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter. (2 Thess. 2:15)
Finally, 2 Timothy 3:16 is specifically addressed to members of the hierarchy. It is a pastoral epistle, written to a young bishop Paul had ordained. R. J. Foster points out that the phrase "man of God" refers to ministers, not to the average layperson (A Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture, Thomas Nelson and Sons, 1149). This title was used in the Old Testament to describe those consecrated to the service of God (Deut. 33:1; 1 Sam. 2:27; 1 Kgs. 12:22). Not only does the text not say Scripture sola, but Pauls exhortation for Timothy to study the word of God is in the context of an exhortation to "preach the word" as a minister of Christ. To use this text to claim that sola scriptura is being taught to the average layperson isto borrow a phrase from Paulgoing far "beyond what is written" (1 Cor. 4:6).
Unworkable
The silence of Scripture on sola scriptura is deafening. But when it comes to the true authority of Scripture and Tradition and to the teaching and governing authority of the Church, the text is clear:
If your brother sins against you go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. . . . But if he does not listen, take one or two others with you. . . . If he refuses to listen . . . tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. (Matt. 18:15-17)
According to Scripture, the Church is the final court of appeal for the people of God in matters of faith, morals, and discipline. It is telling that since the Reformation of almost 500 years agoa Reformation claiming sola scriptura as its formal principlethere are now over 33,000 Protestant denominations. In John 10:16, Jesus prophesied there would be "one flock, one shepherd." Reliance on sola scriptura has not been effective in establishing doctrine or authority.
Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. >> And then he founded his Church on Peter, the Rock.<<
Do you suppose God was wrong?
Psalm 18:31, "And who is a rock, except our God."
Isaiah 44:8, "Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock? I know of none."
>> Yes, Peter denied him three times, but he also professed his faith in Christ three times.<<
How many people did Jesus say this to?
Matthew 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
The Apostle [Paul] requires the aid of Tradition (2 Thess. 2:15). Moreover, the Apostle here refers to the scriptures which Timothy was taught in his infancy.
The Bible denies that it is sufficient as the complete rule of faith. Paul says that much Christian teaching is to be found in the tradition which is handed down by word of mouth (2 Tim. 2:2). He instructs us to "stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thess. 2:15).
I do not see any responses to your or my questions here.
Would there be any Catholic anywhere who would be willing to take a stab at it, I wonder?
Scripture contains so much about God that it would take a lifetime of study to scratch the surface. It is amazing that someone would yet think that it was not adequate for the job that Paul said it was.
2 Timothy 3:14-17 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitablefor teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
Complete. Equipped for EVERY good work. That means nothing lacking.
Scripture is all we need.
And Rome "protected" children from sexual predators (priests) by tradition? Oh. Wait. They didn't protect children, just priests.
Might let it play out a bit.
I don't think protecting pedophiles was church tradition although in the MIddle Ages all the priests were from the noble classes who were pretty much immune from law ~
Paul illustrated what tradition is: "For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures. . . . Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed" (1 Cor. 15:3,11). The apostle praised those who followed Tradition: "I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you" (1 Cor. 11:2).
The first Christians "devoted themselves to the apostles teaching" (Acts 2:42) long before there was a New Testament. From the very beginning, the fullness of Christian teaching was found in the Church as the living embodiment of Christ, not in a book. The teaching Church, with its oral, apostolic tradition, was authoritative. Paul himself gives a quotation from Jesus that was handed down orally to him: "It is more blessed to give than to receive" (Acts 20:35).
This saying is not recorded in the Gospels and must have been passed on to Paul. Indeed, even the Gospels themselves are oral tradition which has been written down (Luke 1:14). Whats more, Paul does not quote Jesus only. He also quotes from early Christian hymns, as in Ephesians 5:14. These and other things have been given to Christians "through the Lord Jesus" (1 Thess. 4:2).
So just where is Scripture lacking and why and why would anyone even think so?
This has become a circular argument. There were many gospels, books and letters in circulation in the first centuries. How do you know for certain that the ones accepted are truly "inspired"? Who made that decision? Moreover, by what authority did they make it?
Jesus never commanded his Apostles to write down anything. Instead, Jesus founded a Church and gave the Apostles the authority to go and make disciples and to lead the Church, and that is what they did they went forth and ordained new bishops in various parts of the world, and trained the people on the Faith. It was at least 40 years until anything was written down for 40 years the Church flourished and grew without any NT book at all. And when such books and letters were written and sent, they were to address specific problems in specific regions (like the Judiazers in Galatia, for example). These were helpful instruments created by the Church, for the Church. But the Church came first.
Requires? Requires? 2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
There is no requires in there. Whether they heard it taught by word or read it doesnt mean it was two different teachings. It simply means that some heard it by word of mouth and others read it from scripture. No where in there does it indicate that there were two different teachings. You need to show that there were different things being taught or this whole idea that some things were not written but only taught by word of mouth is nothing but made up tripe.
>>The Bible denies that it is sufficient as the complete rule of faith.<<
Say what? Chapter and verse please.
>>Paul says that much Christian teaching is to be found in the tradition which is handed down by word of mouth (2 Tim. 2:2).
2 Timothy 2: 2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
Maybe this is what they heard of him and what he commended people for?
Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
” Hold fast these traditions undefiled and, keep yourselves free from offense”
So your big response to Cyril saying: “For concerning the divine and holy mysteries of the Faith, not even a casual statement must be delivered without the Holy Scriptures,” is to quote Cyril partially quoting 2Th 2:15 in order to prove that he really didn’t mean that the most casual statement needs support from the Holy scripture?
Are you able to logically reconcile this, or is your teh logicz broken?
Isa 51:1 Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek Jehovah: look unto the rock whence ye were hewn, and to the hole of the pit whence ye were digged. Isa 51:2 Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you; for when he was but one I called him, and I blessed him, and made him many.
Got it No assurance of Salvation.
Thank you for making that clear. Will the rest of the Prots demand you send back the secret decoder ring?
40 years you say!! Lets see, Christ was crucified around 31AD so 40 years later would be 71AD but alas we have this.
Matthew 37AD written by Matthew, called Levi, son of Alphaeus and brother of James
Mark 57-63AD written by John Mark
Luke 58-63AD written by Luke
Romans 58-60AD the 6th of Pauls letters written in Crinth and sent to Rome by Phebe
1 Corinthians 59AD written by Paul at Ephesus
2 Corinthians 60AD written by Paul
Galatians 69AD written by Paul
Ephesians 64AD written by Paul
Philippians 64AD written by Paul
Colossians 64AD written by Paul
1 Thessalonians 54AD written by Paul
2 Thessalonians 54-55AD written by Paul
1Timothy 67AD written by Paul
2 Timothy 68AD written by Paul
Titus 67AD written by Paul
Philemon 64AD written by Paul
Hebrews 68AD written by Paul
James 45AD written by James the brother of Jesus
1Peter 60AD written by Peter
2 Peter 61-65AD written by Peter
It would seem that only those books written by John were later than 71AD.
>> These were helpful instruments created by the Church, for the Church. But the Church came first.
But certainly not the RCC which has attempted to place itself into the position of the church the body of Christ excluding all other believers. The RCC is an imposter.
“Ill read the Gospels from people who met and walked with Jesus first.”
You know I kind of missed this even though I did see it earlier (it didn’t compute). Other than the 4 Gospels, what other Gospel are you hoping for? You said that the “early church fathers” who “walked with Jesus” would be your source . Well, there weren’t any. That would be the Apostles who wrote the Holy scripture. There is a silly legend that has Ignatius being one of the babies Jesus is reported to have held, as is usual for fables of those time periods, but that’s about it. But, if you want to talk Ignatius, or Polycarp, or Clement, due to the age of their writings, not one of them writes of any Pope. Ignatius calls the “head of the Bishop God,” not the Roman pontiff per the Catechism. In his letter to the Romans, he doesn’t even mention the Bishop of Rome who was supposed to be running Christianity at the time. When Peter is mentioned by any of these three writers, it is side by side the other Apostles with no mention of any superior rank.
This wouldn’t come until later, when the legends about Peter’s death blew up to such an extreme height that they imagined him as the “head of the choir.” Even then, though, there was no singular head of western Catholicism until one of the successors of Gregory, Boniface III, petitioned the emperor for the title of Universal Bishop, which Gregory had explicitly condemned. Before that time, the Bishops of Antioch and Alexandria were also considered the successors of Peter with “divine authority” to rule his alleged See.
Isaiah 44:8, "Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock? I know of none."
Or perhaps are you missing something?
“I am saying that you are only presenting what looks good”
Isn’t that exactly what you’re doing when you can’t even explain how the first quote is wrong or false, and then fail to reconcile it to support your view except to quote Cyril quoting scripture that merely mentions the word tradition... without any indication that demonstrates that that tradition isn’t the tradition found in the scripture which Cyril earlier praised?
” I am also saying that no one here is surprised by your duplicity.”
I’ve long since stopped being surprised by your vapid arguments.
Was Isaiah mistaken or wrong when he said in 51:2-3 that Abraham was the rock?
You answer that and you will have my answer.
I pointed out your error and it seems you just don’t like it. I am over it since I am posting for the lurkers.
“I pointed out your error and it seems you just dont like it. I am over it since I am posting for the lurkers.”
So you showed the lurkers your power of teh logicz. LOL
“Sacred or apostolic tradition consists of the teachings that the apostles passed on orally through their preaching. These teachings largely (perhaps entirely) overlap with those contained in Scripture, but the mode of their transmission is different.
If there are apostolic traditions that are NOT contained in Scripture and that are necessary to Christian life and stand with equal authority of written Scripture by virtue of being from the lips of Christ or his apostles, what are these traditions specifically? Or does written Scripture as a whole contain and repeat a sufficient amount of what was once only an oral teaching?
Is there a publication produced that lists these passed down oral traditions?
This is no rhetorical question as Christians are to be “perfect” or not lacking in any necessary spiritual trait.
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