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To: metmom; Salvation; trebb; count-your-change; boatbums; caww; CynicalBear
So, what exactly did Jesus teach that wasn't written down and how do we know what it is and how do we know that it has been handed down faithfully? How about answering the first part of the question? I notice that every time the question is asked of what those teachings are, NOBODY ever answers it.

Paul illustrated what tradition is: "For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures. . . . Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed" (1 Cor. 15:3,11). The apostle praised those who followed Tradition: "I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you" (1 Cor. 11:2).

The first Christians "devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching" (Acts 2:42) long before there was a New Testament. From the very beginning, the fullness of Christian teaching was found in the Church as the living embodiment of Christ, not in a book. The teaching Church, with its oral, apostolic tradition, was authoritative. Paul himself gives a quotation from Jesus that was handed down orally to him: "It is more blessed to give than to receive" (Acts 20:35).

This saying is not recorded in the Gospels and must have been passed on to Paul. Indeed, even the Gospels themselves are oral tradition which has been written down (Luke 1:1–4). What’s more, Paul does not quote Jesus only. He also quotes from early Christian hymns, as in Ephesians 5:14. These and other things have been given to Christians "through the Lord Jesus" (1 Thess. 4:2).

So just where is Scripture lacking and why and why would anyone even think so?

This has become a circular argument. There were many gospels, books and letters in circulation in the first centuries. How do you know for certain that the ones accepted are truly "inspired"? Who made that decision? Moreover, by what authority did they make it?

Jesus never commanded his Apostles to write down anything. Instead, Jesus founded a Church and gave the Apostles the authority to go and make disciples and to lead the Church, and that is what they did – they went forth and ordained new bishops in various parts of the world, and trained the people on the Faith. It was at least 40 years until anything was written down – for 40 years the Church flourished and grew without any NT book at all. And when such books and letters were written and sent, they were to address specific problems in specific regions (like the Judiazers in Galatia, for example). These were helpful instruments created by the Church, for the Church. But the Church came first.

167 posted on 06/23/2013 11:54:13 AM PDT by NYer ( "Run from places of sin as from the plague."--St John Climacus)
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To: NYer; metmom; Salvation; trebb; count-your-change; boatbums; caww
>>It was at least 40 years until anything was written down<<

40 years you say!! Let’s see, Christ was crucified around 31AD so 40 years later would be 71AD but alas we have this.

Matthew – 37AD written by Matthew, called Levi, son of Alphaeus and brother of James
Mark – 57-63AD written by John Mark
Luke – 58-63AD written by Luke
Romans – 58-60AD the 6th of Pauls letters written in Crinth and sent to Rome by Phebe
1 Corinthians – 59AD written by Paul at Ephesus
2 Corinthians – 60AD written by Paul
Galatians – 69AD written by Paul
Ephesians – 64AD written by Paul
Philippians – 64AD written by Paul
Colossians – 64AD written by Paul
1 Thessalonians – 54AD written by Paul
2 Thessalonians – 54-55AD written by Paul
1Timothy – 67AD written by Paul
2 Timothy – 68AD written by Paul
Titus – 67AD written by Paul
Philemon – 64AD written by Paul
Hebrews – 68AD written by Paul
James – 45AD written by James the brother of Jesus
1Peter – 60AD written by Peter
2 Peter – 61-65AD written by Peter

It would seem that only those books written by John were later than 71AD.

>> These were helpful instruments created by the Church, for the Church. But the Church came first.

But certainly not the RCC which has attempted to place itself into the position of the “church” the body of Christ excluding all other believers. The RCC is an imposter.

172 posted on 06/23/2013 12:28:21 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: NYer
I think we established earlier that when you use term “tradition” you are simply speaking of unwritten Scripture, Yes? That there is no essential difference.

“Sacred or apostolic tradition consists of the teachings that the apostles passed on orally through their preaching. These teachings largely (perhaps entirely) overlap with those contained in Scripture, but the mode of their transmission is different.”

If there are apostolic traditions that are NOT contained in Scripture and that are necessary to Christian life and stand with equal authority of written Scripture by virtue of being from the lips of Christ or his apostles, what are these traditions specifically? Or does written Scripture as a whole contain and repeat a sufficient amount of what was once only an oral teaching?

Is there a publication produced that lists these passed down oral traditions?

This is no rhetorical question as Christians are to be “perfect” or not lacking in any necessary spiritual trait.

180 posted on 06/23/2013 1:32:39 PM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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