WHY ARE OUR CATHOLIC LAITY SO ILLITERATE WHEN IT COMES TO THE CATHOLIC FAITH

Southern Orders ^ | May 31, 2013 | Fr. Allan J. McDonald

[metmom]

Elsie: "What MUST we do..."

MB:The two Great Commandments.

Matthew 5:48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

John 3:7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’

John 6:28-29 28 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

[metmom]

Yet not all are saved. Do you really believe that all one has to do is say the magic words and then put it on autopilot? If you presume your Salvation you reject the gift of Hope.

Of course not all are saved. Not everyone wants to be saved. It's not granted automatically.

Do you really believe that all one has to do is say the magic words and then put it on autopilot?

As opposed to some priest saying some magic words and changing some wheat and wine into the body and blood of Jesus?

If you presume your Salvation you reject the gift of Hope.

Hope is a gift? Chapter and verse please...

Besides, we don't presume salvation. We trust God to keep his word when He promises us something. It's called *faith*.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

Hoping for salvation is a sure sign a person doesn't have it.

Our salvation doesn't start when we die. It starts when we repent and believe. Now. Here on earth.

It just reaches it's fulfillment when we die.

A person who does not have salvation before they die goes to hell when they do. Nobody gets it after.

[metmom]

Ooops, formatting error in previous post.....

Yet not all are saved. Do you really believe that all one has to do is say the magic words and then put it on autopilot? If you presume your Salvation you reject the gift of Hope.

Of course not all are saved. Not everyone wants to be saved. It's not granted automatically.

Do you really believe that all one has to do is say the magic words and then put it on autopilot?

As opposed to some priest saying some magic words and changing some wheat and wine into the body and blood of Jesus?

If you presume your Salvation you reject the gift of Hope.

Hope is a gift? Chapter and verse please...

Besides, we don't presume salvation. We trust God to keep his word when He promises us something. It's called *faith*.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

Hoping for salvation is a sure sign a person doesn't have it.

Our salvation doesn't start when we die. It starts when we repent and believe. Now. Here on earth.

It just reaches it's fulfillment when we die.

A person who does not have salvation before they die goes to hell when they do. Nobody gets it after.

[Elsie]

I thought of a dozen JW jokes to respond with, but in all reality, their error outweighs their zeal and I just feel sorry for them.

You should KNOW that I'll NEVER let an opportunity to make a wise crack - about ANYTHING - pass me by!!

---

 

If you have cable TV, there won’t be much on to watch.

 

 

 

 

If there isn’t much on to watch, you will answer your door whenever someone rings.

 

 

 

 

If you open your door, you will see mormons.

 

 

 

 

If you talk to mormons, they will trick you into “praying about whether something is true”.

 

 

 

 

If you rely on your feelings, you may become a mormon.

 

 

 

 

If you become a mormon, you will have to wear magic underwear!

 

 

 

 

If you wear magic underwear, people will immediately label you as a cultist.

DON’T be a cultist!
Get DirectTV.

[Elsie]

Scripture teaches that men are lost unless they accept Him.

But.. but... I thought that GOD LOVES us and wants us to be HAPPY???

--AverageManOnTheStreet(John 3:18)

John 3:16-18

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

[Elsie]

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

The above has apparently been edited.

Many versions have after '...in him...' this phrase: "and does all the things the church requires".

[metmom]

I read this devotional today and thought it addressed some of the issues in the Catholic/non-Catholic debate pretty well, particularly the part about working out our salvation.

******************************************************************

Daily Reflections with Oswald Chambers [June 6, 2013]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3027919/posts

“Work Out” What God “Works in” You

“. . . work out your own salvation . . . for it is God who works in you . . .”

—Philippians 2:12-13

Your will agrees with God, but in your flesh there is a nature that renders you powerless to do what you know you ought to do. When the Lord initially comes in contact with our conscience, the first thing our conscience does is awaken our will, and our will always agrees with God. Yet you say, “But I don’t know if my will is in agreement with God.” Look to Jesus and you will find that your will and your conscience are in agreement with Him every time. What causes you to say “I will not obey” is something less deep and penetrating than your will. It is perversity or stubbornness, and they are never in agreement with God. The most profound thing in a person is his will, not sin.

The will is the essential element in God’s creation of human beings— sin is a perverse nature which entered into people. In someone who has been born again, the source of the will is Almighty God. “. . . for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.” With focused attention and great care, you have to “work out” what God “works in” you— not work to accomplish or earn “your own salvation,” but work it out so you will exhibit the evidence of a life based with determined, unshakable faith on the complete and perfect redemption of the Lord. As you do this, you do not bring an opposing will up against God’s will— God’s will is your will. Your natural choices will be in accordance with God’s will, and living this life will be as natural as breathing. Stubbornness is an unintelligent barrier, refusing enlightenment and blocking its flow. The only thing to do with this barrier of stubbornness is to blow it up with “dynamite,” and the “dynamite” is obedience to the Holy Spirit.

Do I believe that Almighty God is the Source of my will? God not only expects me to do His will, but He is in me to do it.

[Natural Law]

"Of course not all are saved. Not everyone wants to be saved. It's not granted automatically."

We have and will continue to have the opportunity to choose or reject Salvation many times every day until the moment of our deaths.

"Hope is a gift? Chapter and verse please..."

"This Spirit he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life." - Titus 3:6-7

Hope. infused in Grace, is a theological virtue because its immediate object is God, just like the other two infused theological virtues of faith and charity. Hope reminds us that we are not home on this earth, but rather, on a journey to God. Hope, which is also a grace that we receive by asking, both compels and leads us on, reminding us constantly that God is faithful and that His promises will be realized if we persevere in the faith. Hope is nourished by faith which leads to it.

When we succumb to presumption or despair we sin against hope.

Peace be with you.

[Iscool]

When we succumb to presumption or despair we sin against hope.

ἐλπίς
elpis
el-pece'
From ἔλπω elpō which is a primary word (to anticipate, usually with pleasure); expectation (abstract or concrete) or confidence: - faith, hope.

Just a wee bit of 'serious' study will clear up your flawed Catholic education, every time...You just wasted a couple of paragraphs of bandwidth...

[Iscool]

Quiz for all:

What religion is it that tells us they (and we) can not understand the scriptures and they need a pope to explain it to them??? Anyone know???

"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Cor 2:14

If I couldn't understand the scriptures I'd be mighty nervous about my immediate future...

[Iscool]

1 Corinthians 12: 27Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it.28And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.29All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they?30All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they?31But earnestly desire the greater gifts. And I show you a still more excellent way.

2 Thessalonians 2: 15So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

It's encouraging to see you finally find some scripture that's not in John 6 or Mat. 16:18 but now you just have to figure out how to get the Spirit to lead you in your quest of comparing scripture with scripture...Those you put together don't match at all...

[Iscool]

Mary is the second eve, sir. Surely you are aware of this.

??

Who's rib is she from?

:)

[CynicalBear]

I agree. The RCC insidiously convinces too many that only the “magesterium” have the Holy Spirit and can interpret scripture. The followers of that organization out and out deny the Holy Spirit that was promised to all believers and scoff at those who rely on that indwelling of the Holy Spirit for understanding.

[CynicalBear]

What a freedom we have knowing that it’s God working in us and not we ourselves under our own power.

[Natural Law]

"Just a wee bit of 'serious' study will clear up your flawed Catholic education, every time...You just wasted a couple of paragraphs of bandwidth..."

Providing definitions only reinforces my posting. However, were Scriptures the only source of Truth and the flawed translations within Strong's Concordance (G1680) of any concern to me I might have taken your input seriously.

"SPE SALVI facti sumus”—in hope we were saved, says Saint Paul to the Romans, and likewise to us (Rom 8:24). According to the Christian faith, “redemption”—salvation—is not simply a given. Redemption is offered to us in the sense that we have been given hope, trustworthy hope, by virtue of which we can face our present: the present, even if it is arduous, can be lived and accepted if it leads towards a goal, if we can be sure of this goal, and if this goal is great enough to justify the effort of the journey. Now the question immediately arises: what sort of hope could ever justify the statement that, on the basis of that hope and simply because it exists, we are redeemed? And what sort of certainty is involved here? - Pope Benedict XVI Spe Salvi

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to convert your otherwise wasted bandwidth into a teaching moment.

Peace be with you

[boatbums]

"SPE SALVI facti sumus”—in hope we were saved, says Saint Paul to the Romans, and likewise to us (Rom 8:24). According to the Christian faith, “redemption”—salvation—is not simply a given. Redemption is offered to us in the sense that we have been given hope, trustworthy hope, by virtue of which we can face our present: the present, even if it is arduous, can be lived and accepted if it leads towards a goal, if we can be sure of this goal, and if this goal is great enough to justify the effort of the journey. Now the question immediately arises: what sort of hope could ever justify the statement that, on the basis of that hope and simply because it exists, we are redeemed? And what sort of certainty is involved here? - Pope Benedict XVI Spe Salvi

So, should we believe what Pope Benedict says or the Holy Spirit according St. Paul?

Yet what we suffer now is nothing compared to the glory he will reveal to us later. For all creation is waiting eagerly for that future day when God will reveal who his children really are. Against its will, all creation was subjected to God’s curse. But with eager hope, the creation looks forward to the day when it will join God’s children in glorious freedom from death and decay. For we know that all creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. And we believers also groan, even though we have the Holy Spirit within us as a foretaste of future glory, for we long for our bodies to be released from sin and suffering. We, too, wait with eager hope for the day when God will give us our full rights as his adopted children, including the new bodies he has promised us. We were given this hope when we were saved. (If we already have something, we don’t need to hope for it. But if we look forward to something we don’t yet have, we must wait patiently and confidently.) (Romans 8:18-25)

Verses 24, 25. - For by (or, in) hope we were saved; not are saved, as in the Authorized Version. The aorist ἐσώθημεν, like ἐλάβετε in ver. 15, points to the time of conversion. The dative ἐλπίδι, which has no preposition before it, seems here, to have a modal rather than medial sense; for faith, not hope, is that whereby we are ever said to be saved. The meaning is that when the state of salvation was entered upon, hope was an essential element in its appropriation. A condition, not of attainment, but of hope, is therefore the normal condition of the regenerate now; and so, after shortly pointing out the very meaning of hope, the apostle enforces his previous conclusion, that they must be content at present to wait with patience. (Pulpit Commentary)

[Elsie]

We have and will continue to have the opportunity to choose or reject Salvation many times every day until the moment of our deaths.

Yup: I agree...

[Salvation]

From November 2007 by Pope Benedict XVI:

ENCYCLICAL LETTER SPE SALVI OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF BENEDICT XVI TO THE BISHOPS, PRIESTS AND DEACONS, MEN AND WOMEN RELIGIOUS AND ALL THE LAY FAITHFUL ON CHRISTIAN HOPE

[boatbums]

No, thanks. I have better things to do with my time.

[Natural Law]

"So, should we believe what Pope Benedict says or the Holy Spirit according St. Paul?"

There is no difference. Since it is the same Holy Spirit speaking through them both any perceived discontinuity must reside with you. I'll wager that you did not read the entire Encyclical Letter Spe Salvi before concluding.

Peace be with you