Pope Francis says atheists can do good and go to heaven too!

Catholic Online ^ | 5/24/2013 | Catholic Online

[DaveMSmith]

LOS ANGELES, CA (Catholic Online) - The Holy Father is full of surprises, born of true and faithful humility. On Wednesday he declared that all people, not just Catholics, are redeemed through Jesus, even atheists.

However, he did emphasize there was a catch. Those people must still do good. In fact, it is in doing good that they are led to the One who is the Source of all that is good. In essence he simply restated the hope of the Church that all come to know God, through His Son Jesus Christ.

Francis based his homily on the message of Christ to his disciples taken from the Gospel of Mark. Francis delivered his message by sharing a story of a Catholic who asked a priest if atheists were saved by Christ.

"They complain," Francis said, "If he is not one of us, he cannot do good. If he is not of our party, he cannot do good." He explained that Jesus corrected them, "Do not hinder him, he says, let him do good."

The disciples, Pope Francis explained, "were a little intolerant," closed off by the idea of possessing the truth, convinced that "those who do not have the truth, cannot do good." "This was wrong... Jesus broadens the horizon." Pope Francis said, "The root of this possibility of doing good - that we all have - is in creation."

"Even them, everyone, we all have the duty to do good, Pope Francis said on Vatican Radio.

"Just do good" was his challenge, "and we'll find a meeting point."

[cuban leaf]

Revelation 14:11 “And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”

---

Technically, I believe that is a pretty small subset of the non-believers. Also, the word interpretted as “for ever and ever” does not necessarily mean what most people think when they read the phrase “for ever and ever”.

If your auto manual said you should change the oil in your car ever 7,000 miles “for ever and ever”, it would be interpreted to mean “until you no longer have the car”. A lot of the english translations of “forever” in the bible don’t really mean “for time neverending”. In fact, in some cases it was a short time indeed.

[stuartcr]

I don’t think it sounds like that at all.

[Bulwyf]

I have a direct line to Jesus, I don`t need anyone else to fill that role.

[stuartcr]

Good for you. I imagine the Pope does too.

[Salvation]

The actual homily by Pope Francis does not even mention atheists!

Pope Francis: Suffering difficulties with patience and overcoming oppression with love

2013-05-24 1


Pope Francis: Suffering difficulties with patience and overcoming oppression with love

(Vatican Radio) “To suffer with patience and to overcome external and internal oppression with love.” That was the prayer of Pope Francis today at the Domus Sanctae Martae during Mass on the feast of Mary Help of Christians.

In his homily, Pope Francis requested two graces: “To endure with patience and to overcome with love.” These are “graces proper to a Christian.” “To suffer with patience,” he notes, “is not easy.” “It is not easy, whether the difficulties come from without, or are problems within the heart, the soul, internal problems.” But to suffer, he explained, is not simply to “bear with a difficulty.”:

“To suffer is to take the difficulty and to carry it with strength, so that the difficulty does not drag us down. To carry it with strength: this is a Christian virtue. Saint Paul says several times: Suffer [endure]. This means do not let ourselves be overcome by difficulties. This means that the Christian has the strength not to give up, to carry difficulties with strength. Carry them, but carry them with strength. It is not easy, because discouragement comes, and one has the urge to give up and say, ‘Well, come on, we’ll do what we can but no more.’ But no, it is a grace to suffer. In difficulties, we must ask for [this grace], in difficulty.”

The other grace the Pope asks for is “to overcome with love”:

“There are many ways to win, but the grace that we request today is the grace of victory with love, through love. And this is not easy. When we have external enemies that make us suffer so much: it is not easy, to win with love. There is the desire to take revenge, to turn another against him ... Love: the meekness that Jesus taught us. And that is the victory! The Apostle John tells us in the first Reading: ‘This is our victory, our faith.’ Our faith is precisely this: believing in Jesus who taught us love and taught us to love everyone. And the proof that we are in love is when we pray for our enemies.”

To pray for enemies, for those who make us suffer, the Pope continued, “is not easy.” But we are “defeated Christians” if we do not forgive enemies, and if we do not pray for them. And “we find so many sad, discouraged Christians,” he exclaimed, because “they did not have this grace of enduring with patience and overcoming with love”:

“Therefore, we ask Our Lady to give us the grace to endure with patience and overcome with love. How many people – so many old men and women - have taken this path! And it is beautiful to see them: they have that beautiful countenance, that serene happiness. They do not say much, but have a patient heart, a heart filled with love. They know what forgiveness of enemies is, they know what it is to pray for enemies. So many Christians are like that!”

The Mass was attended by employees of the Pontifical Council for Social Communications led by the president of the dicastery, Archbishop Claudio Maria Celli. And, on the Day of Prayer for the Church in China, Archbishop Savio Hon Tai-Fai, Secretary of the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples, and a group of priests, religious, seminarians and lay people from China also attended the ceremony. At the end of the prayers of the faithful, the Pope prayed: “For the noble Chinese people: May the Lord bless them and Our Lady keep them.” The Mass concluded with a hymn to the Virgin Mary in Chinese.

[DaveMSmith]

What homily was this from? Not what you quoted:

Francis explained himself, "The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart, do good and do not do evil. All of us. 'But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.' Yes, he can... "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ, all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! 'Father, the atheists?' Even the atheists. Everyone!" We must meet one another doing good. 'But I don't believe, Father, I am an atheist!' But do good: we will meet one another there."

[Tanniker Smith]

I’ve heard atheist here on FR say that they can do good, without believing in God. I don’t see why not.

I agree with you. Same thing with some lapsed Catholics I know. Thanks to their upbringing (and maybe some things they'd rather not acknowledge), their actions would qualify them as near-exemplars of Christianity, except for the whole not going to church and mouthing off about the pope/priests/church stuff.

[Cvengr]

My take is the Pope is looking for a starting point - Charity and Goodwill first and faith will grow from there. If one looks to do good (with the implication they will reject evil), then the 'faith of a mustard seed' can be planted.

Only problem is that is the same approach Adam and Eve took in the Garden of Eden which led to the fall.

[Salvation]

Sorry, I should have known that the media would be a couple days late in not reporting the actual article about what the Pope said.

Here is the actual link: http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2013/05/22/pope_at_mass:_culture_of_encounter_is_the_foundation_of_peace/en1-694445

[ansel12]

I’ve heard atheist here on FR say that they can do good, without believing in God. I don’t see why not.

The question isn't about a mild mannered-individual growing up in a culture shaped by religion. Can an atheist society thrive for generations, has it ever?

If America was suddenly sprayed with a chemical that removed all belief in God, and made everyone 100% purely free of any concept of God and a soul and an after life, and removed all residue and traces of any connection with that past, I don't think that the result would be positive.

[DaveMSmith]

Faith is within the understanding (truth) and cannot exist without the will (love or good). Faith alone is represented all though the Bible as the Philistines, the dragon, and the goats in Daniel and Matthew.

The nature of Adam and Eve were they represent people of a celestial nature who had the Word written on their hearts... the people after were spiritual and have free will.

We are spiritual beings. We are influenced by good and evil and can choose in freedom our path. Rejecting evil by seeing something as a bad 'habit' or whatever rubs your conscious the wrong way does not matter - trust the Lord will lead to all truth.

[trebb]

Well, that simply was not the export of what he said. He attempted to lead us to believe that even an atheist could be saved. The nature of their belief is at odds with the gift of salvation and God’s word. I’ll. Take the box Carol Meryl is standing in front of.

Some of the most avid evangelists are reformed atheists. Are you saying that they cannot see the light and accept Christ? If that is the case, none of us can be saved because of the sins we committed and Christ died for nothing.

I do not believe his intent was to indicate that a "practicing" atheist, who has never come to believe before he dies or when Christ comes again, would be saved - has the Pope let on that he is a Universalist? If not, folks are making way too much hay of what he said.

[stuartcr]

I really don’t know if there have been any purely atheist societies, or pure any beliefs. I doubt there ever has, knowing human nature.

I imagine that’s why God made so many different types of people over the ages.

[Cvengr]

Faith is the work of God. The work of God is not represented all though the Bible as the Philistines, the dragon, and the goats in Daniel and Matthew. They do not represent faith.

As soon as one adds something to faith in Christ, it isn’t faith in Christ.

[PeterPrinciple]

Obama, Pelosi, Kerry and the rest ALL think they are doing good.....................

[DaveMSmith]

I meant to say faith divorced from charity are those correspondences and what they represent.

And yes, faith is implanted by the Lord - we are vessels - He is the source.

[ansel12]

That ignored my post.

[daniel1212]

True to form.

But as said in response to your past recourse to the genesis fallacy, “despite your attempt to divert attention to Martin, who is just one apologist who exposes you, the fact remain that Borg presents a radical different Jesus, Spirit and gospel, as stated in posts on previous threads.

See http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2962210/posts?page=70#70 and http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2962210/posts?page=86#86 and other posts

By rejecting the plenary inspiration of about half of the established Scriptures and by denying core truths (including the literal atonement, as passages that refer to the body and blood of Jesus are allegorically made to refer to the “Divine Good and Divine Truth” which proceeds from his Divine Human), both of which were a result of his esoteric occultic “revelations” and his highly allegorical hermeneutic, and by making his own writings as Scripture (”I enjoy a complete inspiration”), borg moved out of the realm of NT Christianity and joins the ranks of Joseph Smith, Ellen G. White, Mary Baker Eddy and others who also claimed a whole series of ‘divine visions’ to justify their teachings.

Additional info:
http://www.ukapologetics.net/11/swedenborgianism.htm
http://www.revjonathanwayfarers.org/sborg_theo/What_is_Bible.htm
http://archive.org/details/swedenborgianis00socigoog (Swedenborgianism examined : Pond)
http://www.whatsaiththescripture.com/Fellowship/SWEDENBORGIANISM.html
http://craigwmiller.tripod.com/interest.htm (Did Emanuel Swedenborg Influence LDS Doctrine?)

Thus your attempt to use FR to propagate Borg doctrine resulted it is being negatively exposed, and will be.

[DaveMSmith]

Do they? Or do they have other motives? They don’t seem to trust God for much of anything...

[stuartcr]

how?