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To: mitch5501

Revelation 14:11 “And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”


Technically, I believe that is a pretty small subset of the non-believers. Also, the word interpretted as “for ever and ever” does not necessarily mean what most people think when they read the phrase “for ever and ever”.

If your auto manual said you should change the oil in your car ever 7,000 miles “for ever and ever”, it would be interpreted to mean “until you no longer have the car”. A lot of the english translations of “forever” in the bible don’t really mean “for time neverending”. In fact, in some cases it was a short time indeed.


101 posted on 05/24/2013 7:06:41 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: cuban leaf
If your auto manual said you should change the oil in your car ever 7,000 miles “for ever and ever”, it would be interpreted to mean “until you no longer have the car”. A lot of the english translations of “forever” in the bible don’t really mean “for time neverending”. In fact, in some cases it was a short time indeed.

Very few i believe from what i have seen, and in the spirutual realm none that can be proved to be temporary. And to the contrary, the eternality of eternal life for the saved has as its counterpart the eternality of the second death for the lost.

The latter are to be sent forth to the same place as the devil, if not suffering to the same degree:

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: " (Matthew 25:41)

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. " (Matthew 25:46)

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. " (Revelation 20:10)

And it is certain that if the suffering is temporary, there is little deterrent effect in the Lord's warning that one should plucking out his eye if that caused you to sin, rather than going where "their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." (Mk. 9:43-49)

137 posted on 05/24/2013 10:18:07 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: cuban leaf

“Technically, I believe that is a pretty small subset of the non-believers.”


No, it includes all unbelievers:

Rev 20:10-15 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (11) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. (12) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. (13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. (14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

There is no salvation outside of Jesus Christ:

Joh_3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

“Also, the word interpretted as “for ever and ever” does not necessarily mean what most people think when they read the phrase “for ever and ever”.”


No, for ever and ever is what it means.


144 posted on 05/24/2013 1:30:38 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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