Posted on 05/12/2013 5:55:26 PM PDT by narses
Full Question
Until recently, I always thought Catholics worshiped on the Sabbath, and that the early Church moved the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. Is this true? Answer
This is a common misunderstanding. Catholics do not worship on the Sabbath, which according to Jewish law is the last day of the week (Saturday), when God rested from all the work he had done in creation (Gen. 2:2-3). Catholics worship on the Lord’s Day, the first day of the week (Sunday, the eighth day); the day when God said "Let there be light" (Gen. 1:3); the day when Christ rose from the dead; the day when the Holy Spirit came upon the Apostles (Day of Pentecost). The Catechism of the Catholic Church says: "The Church celebrates the day of Christ’s Resurrection on the ‘eighth day,’ Sunday, which is rightly called the Lord’s Day" (CCC 2191).
The early Church did not move the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. Instead "The Sabbath, which represented the completion of the first creation, has been replaced by Sunday, which recalls the new creation inaugurated by the Resurrection of Christ" (CCC 2190). Sunday is the day Catholics are bound to keep, not Saturday.
We see evidence of this in Scripture:
On the first day of the week when we gathered to break bread, Paul spoke to them because he was going to leave on the next day, and he kept on speaking until midnight (Acts 20:7). On the first day of the week each of you should set aside and save whatever one can afford, so that collections will not be going on when I come (1 Cor. 16:2). Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or Sabbath (Col. 2:16). The Catechism also says:
By a tradition handed down from the apostles which took its origin from the very day of Christ’s Resurrection, the Church celebrates the Paschal mystery every seventh day, which day is appropriately called the Lord’s Day or Sunday. The day of Christ’s Resurrection is both the first day of the week, the memorial of the first day of creation, and the "eighth day," on which Christ after his "rest" on the great Sabbath inaugurates the "day that the Lord has made," the "day that knows no evening." (CCC 1166)
Other CCC references to the Lord’s Day: 349, 2174, 2175, 2191
Answered by: Peggy Frye
Sorry, but extrapolating literal obedience to all the law is what you are really teaching, and which is simply untenable from what we see in the NT regarding this. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? (Acts 15:10)
Nothing abouth the sabbath has anything to do with “dietary laws.” This is a new smoke screen that you are errecting to dodge the solid facts.
Each of the “first day” meetings that you have listed is a part of a feast. First Fruits, and Pentecost account for all of the meetings that you can come up with.
Rather, i am to rightly divide the word of truth, and which distinguishes btwn ceremonial laws, of which the 7th day is a type, and is never reiterated, versus moral laws, which are.
And in your condemnation here you sound more and more cultic, sorry to say, and others may note that.
>> “Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?” <<
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Sorry daniel, but the yoke that you mention was not from Yehova, but from self declared Rabbis who mocked Torah with their Takanots. That was what they couldn’t bear.
Matthew 15:
[1] Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
[2] Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
[3] But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
You see, there is no commandment in Torah to wash hands, nor not to eat meat and milk together, or thousands of other Takanots.
That was tyhe subject, not Torah.
Lev 23:15 ¶ And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
Lev 23:16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.
If they harvest something, they take it to the Temple and it is to be waved before the Lord ON THE DAY AFTER THE WEEKLY SABBATH which is SUNDAY. Feast of First fruits.
They then count from that day 50 days to Pentecost, again a Sunday.
That is the BIBLE method.
But now, let me ask you, DOES GOD CLOSE HIS EARS ON THE OTHER DAYS OF THE WEEK IF SOMEONE OFFERS PRAYERS OR HYMNS other than YOUR SABBATH?
If God does not close his ears on other days why are we having this discussion in the first place!
The scripture that you selected make it plain that it is the sabbaths, and not the following day, that are the rekoning.
Yehova also does not ever mention any of the pagan names assigned to the days of the week.
You are reading into the text , for what ye Holy Spirit states the conflict was: And certain men which came down from Judæa taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. (Acts 15:1)
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: (Acts 15:24)
Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. (Acts 21:24-25)
****...and since you folks cannot come up a legitimate commandment from His scriptures to honor Sunday as His Sabbath***
So? Can you come up with PROOF that worshiping on SUNDAY is the MARK OF THE BEAST? That used to be taught by Sabbatharians many years ago.
Meanwhile...back to “the first day of the week”.
After spending years examining Jewish writings in the Babylonian Talmud, Hebraist John Lightfoot wrote A Commentary on the New Testament from the Talmud and Hebraica, in which he expounded upon the Hebrew method of counting the days of the week.
He noted: “The Jews reckon the days of the week thus; One day (or the first day) of the sabbath: two (or the second day) of the sabbath;” etc. (1859, 2:375, emp. in orig.). Lightfoot then quoted from two different Talmud tractates. Maccoth alludes to those who testify on “the first of the sabbath” about an individual who stole an ox.
Judgment was then passed the following day—“on the second day of the sabbath” (Lightfoot, 2:375, emp. in orig.; Maccoth, Chapter 1).
Bava Kama describes ten enactments ordained by a man named Ezra, including the public reading of the law “on the second and fifth days of the sabbath,” and the washing of clothes “on the fifth day of the sabbath” (Lightfoot, 2:375; Bava Kama, Chapter 7). In Michael Rodkinson’s 1918 translation of Maccoth and Bava Kama, he accurately translated “the second day of the sabbath” as Monday, “the fifth day of the sabbath” as Thursday, and “the first of the sabbath” as Sunday.
http://www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=11&article=2022
I will stick with 600 years of real Greek translators and not some johny-come-lately who thinks he has suddenly found something “new”.
As was said in the past....
“Pertness and ignorance will ask in three lines a question that will take thirty pages of learning and ingenuity to answer.
And when this is done, the same question will be triumphantly asked again the next year, as if nothing had ever been written on the subject”.—Bishop Horne (1837)
Special K?
While they may have counted from the Sabbaths it is the day after that was important. That was the feast of the First Fruits and Pentecost which came on SUNDAY.
Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
1Cr 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept.
Act 20:16 For Paul had determined to sail by Ephesus, because he would not spend the time in Asia: for he hasted, if it were possible for him, to be at Jerusalem the day of Pentecost.
First of all......I don't need to do anything! But I'll tell you this. If your creator issues a commandment and you purposely break it.....knowing what the truth is......He's not going to be delighted with you. I don't judge you (or anyone). I'm here to show the uninformed, the misinformed and the totally misguided what the scriptures really say.....not what they have been taught for 1700 years. Now....if you don't know the truth.....or you simply misunderstand the truth....I guess you'll have to be taught at a later date.
Many good folks understand who Yahweh is....and they understand the purpose of the crucifixion. The reason they don't understand other things is generally not their fault. It's what they've been taught from childhood.....and most of it is wrong!
As for your challenge, that is based upon your claim on how sabbaton and sabbatwn is used is correct versus others, and so "first day of the sabbath" cannot mean first day of the week, and per usual, you relegate disagreement with you to being due to impure motive and a conspiracy of sorts.
It's simple. The Greeks had no word for Sabbath. It's a Hebraism transliterated into the Koine. Shabbath is SABBATON. Shabbathown is SABBATWN. If you were to write the words....."The First day of the Week" in the Koine you would write......"PROTOS HEMERA TES EBDOMADOS". Instead....all the resurrection passages are written, "MIA TWN SABBATWN"....or "First of the Sabbaths".
Strong's #7676 shabbath; intermission, i.e (specifically) the Sabbath:--(+ every) sabbath.
Strong's #7677 shabbathown; sabbatism or special holiday:--rest, sabbath.
Shabbathown is carried into the Greek as SABBATWN and it does not mean "Week"!
Sorry, but you already tried to force sabbath in Col. 2:16 to refer to other than the sabbath shadow it is, and to disallow dogma as the law of commandments from referring to the 4th commandment, and considering the cardinal importance you make keeping the 7th day besides feasts and dietary laws, i do not buy the idea that God would not reiterate the 4th commandment as did the other 9, while speaking of the sabbath in the context of shadow, as with laws on diet, etc.
Well....I have an idea. Since you reject the truth...why don't you just ignore any and all postings from me....and then you won't have to worry about it anymore. I'm not here to explain things to totally corrupted individuals. I'm here to reach the few who may still have some questions in their minds as to how the Roman Church has totally falsified just about everything they came in contact with.
And I forced nothing into [Colossians 2:16]. What I did was remove some additions to scripture made by biased translators. Look at the italics for verification in any Bible.
Further evidence that the weekly Sabbath is in view stems from the New Testament usage of the word sabba,twn. This word is used sixty times in the New Testament in both the singular and plural, always referring to the seventh-day Sabbath.1 While Adventists themselves admit that fifty-nine times it refers to the weekly Sabbath, they still insist based upon "context" that Colossians 2:16 remains the only use of the word for ceremonial sabbaths.2 Such alleged contextual evidence is lacking. It appears that the normal meaning for sabba,twn has been abandoned to maintain a moral/ceremonial dichotomy within the Law. Bruce adds, "When the sabbath is mentioned in the OT or the NT with no contextual qualification, the weekly sabbath in intended."3
I'm not an Adventist and don't know (or care) what they believe. If you wish to check the usage of the word SABBATWN in the New Testament.......please do. You'll find it's in use describing Feast Days or the seven Sabbaths of the Omer....not the regular weekly Sabbath.
Thus my question to you for which i still await your answer. If it is clearly in the affirmative, then you should be able to agree to disagree, and if not, then it affirms that you are of an elitist sect which your doctrine and manner seems to indicate.
I belong to no sect, denomination or any type of corporate religious entity. And..........I judge no one. The information is here for those who wish to pursue their understanding [Proverbs 25:2]. For those who don't....C'est la Vie!
No, absolutely not.
It was the feast, which was celebrated since Adam’s fall that is important, and the feasts are rekoned by the days that matter, which are sabbaths.
The other days of the week on which feasts fall, which can be any of them, become temporarily “high days.” otherwise they are work days and of no consequence.
***It was the feast, which was celebrated since Adam’s fall that is important,***
Does not compute. How did God institute feasts for Adam when he didn’t give them the LAW and commandments till Moses?
Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, [even] us, who [are] all of us here alive this day.
A yoke is something that is a burden. Works based grace is a burden as no one could or can do anything to receive God's grace. From Adam, it has been offered to all mankind freely but whether or not we receive the blessings and the rewards that comes from His grace is up to us.
Rev 22:12 “And see, I am coming speedily, and My reward is with Me, to give to each according to his work.
He doesn't say He is coming to give rewards according to grace, the rewards are according to our works, our obedience towards the Father. As He was obedient and walks in newness of life, so too, if He in us as the Father in Him, then the Father is in us that we all become one as he and the Father are one. Peter told us that Messiah is a stone of stumbling to both Jew and Gentile but of course, Peter was referring scattered Israel who had become as Gentiles. Read 1Pet 2:6-8 then read Is 8:14 and then after that read 1Pet 2:10 and follow it up with Hosea 1:9-10 & 2:23. Peter was not speaking out of thin air according to some fictitious new covenant for Gentiles, Peter was quoting the Prophets just as Jesus did.
And as Paul said, grace is not a license to disobey God, but rather through grace we joyfully are to serve God according to His will, not the will of man that comes with yokes no man can ever live up to because even the ones who came up with those yokes do not even keep them.
Rom 6:1 What, then, shall we say? Shall we continue in sin, to let favour increase? 2 Let it not be! How shall we who died to sin1 still live in it? [Footnote: 1See Rom. 8:13, Col. 3:3] 1 Peter 2:24 ... 15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
So it would seem once again, Paul is not in agreement with the doctrine of the church, but vehemently stands opposed to it because Messiah was opposed to it.
Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.
The Law defines sin and if the Law is set aside, then there is no definition of sin therefore there is no sin and no need for a Messiah.
LOL whose side are you on here?
That is asking me to judge and that is not a command given to us. That is a cop out, as Scripture states those who preach a false gospel are accursed. (Gal. 1:7-9)
Paul was not speaking of any Scripture that did not exist in Scripture form when he taught & preached. Paul was speaking of the only Word of God known to them and that was their Hebrew Scriptures that the church renamed the 'old' testament in order to profit from their false doctrine and invisible 'new' covenant that is no where to be found anywhere in any of the words of the Word of God, even when He was with us in the flesh.
Thus this places all back under the law, including circumcision as this is what you are left with without abrogation of such laws, and thus you are condemning all who do not keep the 7th day, which is to your own damnation, to which i now leave you.
Made my day!
John 6:28-29
Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
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