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To: patlin
Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. 6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.'

Sorry, but extrapolating literal obedience to all the law is what you are really teaching, and which is simply untenable from what we see in the NT regarding this. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? (Acts 15:10)

181 posted on 05/13/2013 7:46:37 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212; patlin

>> “Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?” <<

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Sorry daniel, but the yoke that you mention was not from Yehova, but from self declared Rabbis who mocked Torah with their Takanots. That was what they couldn’t bear.

Matthew 15:
[1] Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,

[2] Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

[3] But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

You see, there is no commandment in Torah to wash hands, nor not to eat meat and milk together, or thousands of other Takanots.

That was tyhe subject, not Torah.


184 posted on 05/13/2013 7:57:45 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: daniel1212
Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon ...

A yoke is something that is a burden. Works based grace is a burden as no one could or can do anything to receive God's grace. From Adam, it has been offered to all mankind freely but whether or not we receive the blessings and the rewards that comes from His grace is up to us.

Rev 22:12 “And see, I am coming speedily, and My reward is with Me, to give to each according to his work.

He doesn't say He is coming to give rewards according to grace, the rewards are according to our works, our obedience towards the Father. As He was obedient and walks in newness of life, so too, if He in us as the Father in Him, then the Father is in us that we all become one as he and the Father are one. Peter told us that Messiah is a stone of stumbling to both Jew and Gentile but of course, Peter was referring scattered Israel who had become as Gentiles. Read 1Pet 2:6-8 then read Is 8:14 and then after that read 1Pet 2:10 and follow it up with Hosea 1:9-10 & 2:23. Peter was not speaking out of thin air according to some fictitious new covenant for Gentiles, Peter was quoting the Prophets just as Jesus did.

And as Paul said, grace is not a license to disobey God, but rather through grace we joyfully are to serve God according to His will, not the will of man that comes with yokes no man can ever live up to because even the ones who came up with those yokes do not even keep them.

Rom 6:1 What, then, shall we say? Shall we continue in sin, to let favour increase? 2 Let it not be! How shall we who died to sin1 still live in it? [Footnote: 1See Rom. 8:13, Col. 3:3] 1 Peter 2:24 ... 15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

So it would seem once again, Paul is not in agreement with the doctrine of the church, but vehemently stands opposed to it because Messiah was opposed to it.

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.

The Law defines sin and if the Law is set aside, then there is no definition of sin therefore there is no sin and no need for a Messiah.

196 posted on 05/13/2013 8:56:49 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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