Posted on 04/23/2013 9:37:23 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
In a segment titled “God and Hitler,” Gordon Robertson (son of Rev. Pat Robertson), hosted a discussion on the Catholic Church’s response to Hitler. Several errors of fact were made.
1) It is wrong to paint Hitler as a Catholic. Though he was baptized, he excommunicated himself, latae sententiae, when he sought, in his words, to “crush [the Catholic Church] like a toad.” He made good on his pledge by persecuting 8,000 priests, over 500 of whom were killed in concentration camps. He also sought to assassinate the pope.
2) The 1933 Nazi-Vatican Concordat was not a show of solidarity. As Rabbi David Dalin has shown, it was a protective measure designed to protect German Catholics from persecution. In fact, at least 34 letters of protest were sent from the Vatican to the Nazis between 1933 and 1937, culminating in a 1937 encyclical that condemned Nazi violations of the Concordat and its racial ideology. It was smuggled out of Italy and distributed on Palm Sunday to Catholics in Germany. Nothing like this happened in Protestant churches in Germany.
3) It is not true that Hitler met resistance from Protestants alone. There are 800,000 trees planted in Israel that represent the 800,000 Jews saved by the Catholic Church. None have been planted as a tribute to Protestants. During the war, the New York Times twice said the Church was “a lonely voice crying out of the silence of a continent”; Albert Einstein also singled out the Church during the war. After the war, Golda Meir praised the work of the Church, as did the ADL, the World Jewish Congress, and scores of other Jewish organizations.
4) It is factually wrong to say the Vatican archives have “never been seen.” Many scholars have had access. As for Pope Pius XII being “Hitler’s Pope,” it should be noted that John Cornwell, the ex-seminarian who originated this term, retracted it years ago. So why does “The 700 Club” continue to cite it?
If you don’t like *Catholic bashing*, don’t Protestant bash.
But judging from their actions they rarely know what it means. Perhaps because to them it means whatever they imagine it to mean. Within non-Catholic Christianity there are no wrong answers and too often no Christ. In a world filled with error and corruption our posts should bring light, not focus on the darkness.
"Have nothing to do with stupid and senseless controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kindly to everyone, an apt teacher, patient, correcting opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth, and that they may escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will." - 2 Timothy 2:23-36
Martin Luther was a Catholic priest.
We’ve been told many a time, that once a Catholic, always a Catholic and once a priest, always a priest.
He never intended to start a new religion and didn’t. He wanted to clean up the corruption and immorality of the Catholic church that existed at that time and return to the teachings of Scripture, the Bible that the Catholic church claims it wrote.
For that, the Catholic church ex-communicated him. They obviously did not want the immorality and corruption cleaned out, nor were they interested in the teaching of the Scripture present day Catholic claim the church wrote.
Problem is, I have God's book...And he condemns your religion at every turn...As a Christian, I have no choice but to follow God and reject and avoid your religion...
And BTW, according to God's book, I have been judged already...And I passed...
Oh right...So that's not bashing...What word did the Catholics invent for it???
So what or who were all those people that refused to bow down to your popes who ended up very tortured and extremely dead in history's past??? So I guess they couldn't have been Christians because they weren't Catholic, eh???
John 2:13-16 The Passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 In the temple he found those who were selling oxen and sheep and pigeons, and the money-changers sitting there. 15 And making a whip of cords, he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen. And he poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. 16 And he told those who sold the pigeons, “Take these things away; do not make my Father's house a house of trade.”
Or God forbid, someone should criticize Bingo.....
Then there are these words of Jesus to the religious leaders of the day...
Matthew 23:1-36 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples,
2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, 3 so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice. 4 They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. 5 They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, 6 and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues 7 and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi by others. 8 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10 Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. 11 The greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in. 15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.
16 “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ 17 You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred? 18 And you say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.’ 19 You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and by him who dwells in it. 22 And whoever swears by heaven swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it.
23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. 24 You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!
25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.
27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness. 28 So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, 30 saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. 33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?
34 Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, 35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
There were many times Jesus criticized the religious leaders of the day and angered them. He spoke against all the religious traditions they had set up and gave them the truth out of and of Scripture.
Same thing is happening today with the Catholic church and any other religious institution and the reaction is the same. The Pharisees hated Him and finally succeeding in having Jesus crucified.
Those who speak the truth out of the word of God today are treated much the same. They are met with anger and derision, and scorn.
Nothing has changed in 2,000 years. Those who love religion will always hate the truth of God and His word.
Now, is anyone going to charge Jesus with not being loving because He spoke harshly or physically cleansed the Temple? Doesn't that show scars from unforgiveness on His part? Anger and hatred in His heart? Shouldn't He have chose love instead of anger and hatred?
Ooops, Jesus DID get angry.
Mark 3:5 And he looked around at them with anger, grieved at their hardness of heart, and said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out, and his hand was restored.
What now?
However, sometimes they met by the riverside.
Acts 16:11-15 11 So, setting sail from Troas, we made a direct voyage to Samothrace, and the following day to Neapolis, 12 and from there to Philippi, which is a leading city of the district of Macedonia and a Roman colony. We remained in this city some days. 13 And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to the riverside, where we supposed there was a place of prayer, and we sat down and spoke to the women who had come together. 14 One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul. 15 And after she was baptized, and her household as well, she urged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.” And she prevailed upon us.
Or in houses.
Romans 16:5 Greet also the church in their house. Greet my beloved Epaenetus, who was the first convert to Christ in Asia.
1 Corinthians 16:19 The churches of Asia send you greetings. Aquila and Prisca, together with the church in their house, send you hearty greetings in the Lord.
Colossians 4:15 Give my greetings to the brothers at Laodicea, and to Nympha and the church in her house.
Philemon 1:1-3 Paul, a prisoner for Christ Jesus, and Timothy our brother, To Philemon our beloved fellow worker and Apphia our sister and Archippus our fellow soldier, and the church in your house: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
And look at how house churches are disparaged these days.
German Catholics were one-third of the population of the Reich, and of that number about a fourth were more than nominal, or cultural Catholics. Even in the ‘30s, practicing Catholics tended to be a distinct minority. Catholics were not supposed to be Party members, but many did join.
Men rejected Him. Jesus is The Word. All those who participate in man made teachings/doctrine are rejecting Jesus; thus rejecting The One who sent Him. They are all counterfeit institutions under 'did God really say' banner.
Like Jesus said "These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is based on merely human rules they have been taught. Isaiah 29:13
"You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you......" Matthew 15:7
They are led of the devil and too deceived to know it because they even refuse His Words above. They are children of darkness!
By accepting that Peter is the Rock on which the church is built, they are rejecting that Jesus is.
And the very words of Peter himself.
HE obviously knew who the Rock the church was built on was and never, ever claimed it for himself. And you’d think that for something so important, that Peter himself would have left written instructions that the Catholic church would have included in the Bible, since they claim they wrote it anyway.
And yet there’s nothing....
Ridiculous, you say? It happens all around here, all the time. One Catholic saying "once Catholic, always Catholic", and another saying "the Church needs to excommunicate that person behaving badly". And another begging everyone to just "come back home to the Church". All the while, evil just grows and grows.
Those who discuss Jesus in the context of was He God or was He man present the wrong premise; He was God AND man. Understanding who He is is instrumental in understanding what He did. Every single action by Jesus was an action by God in the Second Person of the Trinity. Actions appropriate to God are not appropriate to us.
Because we are all created in the image of God, God exists in all of us. We are called to love each other and to forgive every trespass and transgression as a demonstration of our love for the God within. Anger toward each other and unkind acts are never appropriate to us.
Peace be with you
And you laid It out beautifully, Elsie. It only took one Scripture for Rome to deceive the easily deceived.
JESUS is THE ROCK of my salvation which is a gift. Catholics have 'man' which means they don't have it and yet the pawns are working for it.
They are rejecting Jesus, period. They are rejecting "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." - what was revealed to Peter by God.
Who did 'the others' say HE was? 'Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.' - 'MAN'!
And Rome/RCC deceives with that lie, also. They do not believe what was revealed to Peter by God. They don't believe God, Our Father, for they are of their father, satan.
HE obviously knew who the Rock the church was built on was and never, ever claimed it for himself.
EXACTLY! And neither did the rest of the apostles, including Paul. All eyes were on JESUS!
since they claim they wrote it anyway.
That is just another heresy that Rome fed their flock and they ate it hook, line and sinker.
And yet there’s nothing....
Nothing but deception.
People who want nicey-nice are into PC - which was designed to cover the truth, make truth void.
Jesus The Word loved them enough to come and die for them - so He loved them enough to tell them The Truth but those who were looking for nicey-nice rejected HIM!
They are into false peace and love they get from 'man'. And Jesus The Word came that they might have LIFE for Jesus is Life - and not death that only man can give.
Hitler was the popular head of the German state, and head of a party whose papers was openly contemptuous of Christianity. The reality is that the most politically active Catholics were in concentration camps, and in seclusion. The Nazis knew how to decapitate opposition. The concodate that was supposed to protect the Church’s social role in society was breaking down. The letter from the Vatican denouncing Nazism had to be smuggled into the country. Ordinary German Catholic either supported the regime or were afraid to oppose it. Hitler had been very successful for four years and had gone to restore Germany’s place in Europe. That was the situation.
The play on words suggests you are wrong. Why do you think that Paul spoke of Cephas? If you want to make an argument, it is a better one not to deny how important Simon Peter was but to deny that he had successors.
There is maybe a slight play on words, which doesn’t come through with a poor translation of the Greek.
The Greek makes it clear there is a difference.
Anyone who can’t grasp the difference between a pebble and a cliff is in pretty bad shape.
What is perfectly clear is that Simon was known as “the rock.” was the most prominent of the disciples.
Peter wasn’t all that important at all.
He was weak, made poor judgments, Paul had to chastise him for hypocrisy, and James was the head of the Council at Jerusalem in Acts 15.
He did a few noteworthy things but is more known for screwing up.
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