Posted on 03/25/2013 10:01:21 AM PDT by WayoftheTab
” So please do not tell me that what goes in our mouths does not matter because that is what started it all in the first place. “
It doesn’t matter. What comes out of the mouth is indeed more important:
Mat 15:17-20 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? (18) But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. (19) For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: (20) These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
Also read Romans 14 and 1 Cor 10.
Wash and repeat, wash and repeat, until your heresy is cleaned entirely.
ABSOLUTELY! I am in agreement here but that does not negate our responsibility and duty to walk, teach and speak His truth as He gave it to us to walk, teach and speak.
Rm 14 is about fasting and not eating food sacrificed to idols, 1Cor 10 about giving thanks to God for all that He created to be eaten and not letting anyone hinder us in our walk with Yeshua.
And Mt 15 is not about what is defined as food, but is about the legalism of the oral law of Judaism and their hand-washing laws that put yokes on men where Yahweh put no yokes on men. Now hand-washing before eating is a good thing, it is just not a command of Yahweh.
Yeshua in Mt 15:19 speaks of blasphemies and false witnessing, these are things that are said that are not true and evil speaking against the authority of Yahweh, both of which contain that which is direct opposition what Yeshua walked and taught which is obedience to the Father from a circumcised heart.
In Lk 24, Yeshua defined His Scriptures for us that we are to use to seek out Him and His truth and Yeshua defines these Scriptures as Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms, so everything that Yeshua, Paul and all the other apostles speak must align with that which Yeshua gave us to seek out. If they don't, then it is a new gospel that Yeshua did not preach.
The Father doesn't wait a decade or more to reveal His truth, He prophesies before hand what will be and then He gives it when He or His representative is present as He did at Mt Sinai. All the apostles confirm that the covenant given at Mt Sinai is the one and the same covenant given to us, the only difference is that we now have it in its fullest meaning that was prophesied to happen upon Yeshua’s death, burial and resurrection.
Nothing new, but all simply true as it has been from the beginning. If it doesn't have ‘hath God said’ or ‘God says’ before it, I believe it to be inspired but inspired is not the same as directly from the horse's mouth as it was at Mt Sinai.
2Tim 3:14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Yeshua Messiah. 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
What Scriptures had Timothy known from his youth? Certainly not that which was written long after he became an adult and a disciple of Yeshua Messiah. All that which is right of Malachi did not exist in a formal scroll for ALL to read until centuries after Messiah's death. All that is and was, is and is to be was written long before Yeshua came in the flesh to lead and teach us how to walk in righteousness of the Father as He, Yeshua, walked in the righteousness of the Father.
Yeshua said in Mt 7 that those practicing lawlessness, He does not know them and they do not know Him. Christian doctrine, which includes my former state of spirituality, teaches a lawless gospel message in direct opposition to that of Yeshua. My Lutheran study bible admits it! So what does that say? It says they know it but their hearts are so hardened that they refuse to humble themselves to His truth so that they can keep walking in their own righteousness rather than His.
Whose righteousness do you want to be found in when He returns? His or the churches? Because it is only those walking in His righteousness that obtain the reward of the bride. Righteousness simply being doing that which is right in the eyes of the Father, not doing what is deemed to be right in the eyes of some religious zealots seeking their own righteousness as many of the Pharisees and scribes were doing with the Word of God that they had changed and continue to change. Christian Pharisees are a dime a dozen, just as Jewish ones are to this very day. The only difference, the Jewish ones admit to being Pharisees who claim to have the authority to change God's instructions and heap unwanted yokes and burdens on the people.
Christian doctrine absolutely teaches works based salvation with their sacraments. Every one of them!!! If food laws are so trivial, then I guess we can put them under the 'least' of His commands which Yeshua said we are not to teach anyone that it is ok to disobey even the least.
Not one jott or one tittle shall fall, ever! His Word is eternal and for all mankind. (Ecc 12:13-14)
“Rm 14 is about fasting and not eating food sacrificed to idols,”
Wrong.
Rom 14:1-6 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. (2) For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. (3) Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. (4) Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (5) One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. (6) He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
No mention of fasting. In fact, the person who chooses to eat “only herbs” is called “weak in the faith” compared to the person who believes he can eat all things. Fasting is never called a “weakness” in scripture.
“1Cor 10 about giving thanks to God for all that He created to be eaten and not letting anyone hinder us in our walk with Yeshua.”
Wrong. Just the opposite.
1Co 10:23-29 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not. (24) Let no man seek his own, but every man another’s wealth. (25) Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake: (26) For the earth is the Lord’s, and the fulness thereof. (27) If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake. (28) But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord’s, and the fulness thereof: (29) Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man’s conscience?
We are specifically not to hinder someone ELSE, who might be offended by that which is lawful for us to do. If the man says straight out, “this is offered in sacrifice unto idols,” you do not eat it for HIS sake, not your own. Otherwise, we are to eat what is presented before us, without questioning for HIS sake.
Your distortions of scripture are stunning.
Rm 2:11 For there is no partiality with God. 12 For as many as sinned without the Law shall also perish without the Law, and as many as sinned in the Law shall be judged by the Law. 13 For not the hearers of the Law are righteous in the sight of God, but the doers of the Law shall be declared right. 14 For when gentiles, who do not have the Law, by nature do what is in the Law, although not having the Law, they are a Law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or even excusing, 16 in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men through Yeshua Messiah, according to my Good News.
Shabbat Shalom
John 1:1 does not speak of the written Word—again, that’s a deceptive trick by the HRM. “Logos” focuses on the words of a speaker, or his utterances—not the message of the words themselves. That would be “rhema.”
John is saying that the voice of YHWH, or the utterance of YHWH became flesh.
You are conflating justification and sanctification. One who is justified possesses the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the eternal Seal of redemption placed on His child eternally. If one possesses the Holy Spirit, there is no possibility that person could EVER go to hell. http://wayofthetabernacle.com/between_belief_salvation.htm
And, such is the entirety of the “religion of Hebraic Roots.” Stunning distortions of scripture.
According to patlin’s religion, he will never be able to square Revelation 22:14-15 with his “under the law” error, and his “any sin will send you to hell” mentality. Both groups are in heaven—one has access to the kingdom of YHWH (the temple), and one group doesn’t. The former sacrificed their flesh, the latter didn’t. According to patlin’s “theology,” the latter group cannot be there (even though, at that point in John’s Revelation, the devil, his demons, and the unbelievers have all been cast into the lake of fire).
You see, were patlin to understand the truth in those two verses, his entire system of belief would fall apart. It will eventually anyway, for the moment he attempts to justify himself to a holy God, he’ll realize just how gross his error is.
http://wayofthetabernacle.com/do_sinners_go_to_heaven.htm
Hebrews 11:39 is speaking about those who lived by faith before the Spirit (promise) was poured out on all mankind. So, what you call a “theory” holds up just fine (and always will).
And, 1 Corinthians 11:1 is dealing with sanctification, not justification—again, another difficult concept for HRMers.
THANK YOU, Your testimony/article above was some of the best writing on the HRM I have found. And this comment exchange here was an awesome read. THANKS
Then what word does it speak of since The Word said Himself in Lk 24 that all that was written, was written about Him?
The Son is the Word of God. The Word of God defined His Word in Lk 24 as Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms. There was no New Testament, so to believe as those believed when He was here in the flesh, we must believe all that He spoke prior which was no different than what He spoke in the flesh. This is called being 'one' and since God does not change, neither does His Word, the same yesterday, today and forever.
Amo 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD does nothing, Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets.
There is not one prophecy about a Messiah who comes to do it all for us so we no longer have to obey the commands. NONE!!! There is 'ONE' God, the is 'ONE' Word of God and that ONE Word is for all for all times. Ecc 12:13-14 - the duty of ALL MANKIND! Fear God and obey His commands.
The one who trusts in the Word of God, does the Word of God. The one who doesn't trust in the Word of God does not obey the Word of God. It is really very simple as our God is not a complicated God and neither is He the author of confusion. Lawlessness begets confusion, lawfulness begets harmony and peace. Then there is also the "if, then" scenario. If we will, then He will .. 2 Chron 7:14 as well as the first time the gospel message was uttered, Ex 19:5-6, Heb 4:2, 1Pet 2:9-10. The same gospel message then & now. Acts 7:37-39
Having been out of town for a couple months, I have not been able to reply to patlin.
What patlin claims is largely refuted in the article (and by the Holy Spirit). However, to this latest fallacious assertion, that the truth of YHWH was complete and fulfilled while the Messiah walked the earth, Christ Himself succinctly refutes that:
“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.” John 16:12-13
It is no coincidence that the HRM preachers of the law flee from forthright discussions about the role and authority of the Holy Spirit, for those who preach the written law of the Old Covenant actually preach against the Holy Spirit (who is the fulfilled Law of YHWH).
Is or is not Messiah the WHOLE Word of God from beginning to end that put on flesh? And if your response is yes, then how can He deny any part of Himself and still be the perfect sacrifice for our sins as in denying any part of Him is for us, His sacrifice is then made imperfect.
You are still missing what the “Word of YHWH” is, confusing it with the written word (which would be “rhema” in the Greek). The “Word” that put on flesh is “logos,” which is the utterance, or spoken word, of YHWH. This is the basis of many of the HRM heresies—claiming that the spoken Word of YHWH equates to His written word.
The reason for the confusion is that the preachers of the law (HRM) are largely unfamiliar with Who it is that is the Voice of YHWH to the bride, for their very belief system is based on a gross neglect and refutation of the role and authority of the Holy Spirit.
My heart tells me I should try to obey Gods directions. Which lies do you think the early church added or omitted?
Then I would tell you to start exactly where the Roman Christian system told us to start when we were impressionable youth, a doctrine which it holds to this day but with a bit of a different turn than that which they teach.
Start in John 1 and read through verse 18, then go back to John 1:1 and go where it says to go, in the beginning, not 2/3 the way through God's Word so that when you get back to John 1:1, you will understand the religious political climate as well as the foundation of the reason in which Messiah had to come and suffer first and the importance of the players in the last 1/3 of the book.
Is 46:10 declaring from the beginning, the end, and from old, that which has yet been done, saying, “My counsel does stand, and My delight I do”
John 5:46 For if you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, since he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how shall you believe My words.
Messiah is all over Scripture beginning in Genesis 1:1. One’s heart just needs to be in a state of humility to accept that those they trusted to give them the truth either deceived them out of their own ignorance, or worse, out of love of the flesh and a paycheck over the welfare of His flock. Once one has come to that state of humility and is open to receive His truth, His Spirit of Truth will guide them to and in His Truth. But don't forget to count the cost because it will cost one loved ones, friends and possibly more just as it did Messiah and all those who followed Him.
There is a yearly Torah cycle that we study every year according to God's calendar called Torah Parasha (weekly Torah portions that include the Prophets and the NT). There are many congregations with archives of these weekly studies based on a Messianic/Hebrew Roots foundation. I started with Mark Biltz teachings at El Shaddai Ministries [dot] us. But you may find another congregation suits your needs and personality better. All I can suggest is pray and then go seek the one that is meant for you. When you find it, you will know in your heart that is where you are to be at that time because it will feel right and you will be at total peace while the world is crumbling around us.
We just started a local congregation a couple of months ago, there may be one in your area but if not there are many that live feed every Sabbath. But is you are tough and you feel you can "handle the truth" with a no holds bar, bold and plain speaking truth, as bold and plain speaking as Nicholson, then go visit Steve Berkson [dot] Podomatic [dot] com and begin with his teaching on the fear of Yahweh, then go to the Relationship between Salvation, Faith and Works and then Beware False Prophets. There are dozens upon dozens of videos on youtube about the truth of the lies of our church fathers which their writings bear out this truth as well as their current church records. The sect of the Nazarenes of Acts is not the church and they admit it, all of them and there has recently been discovery of ancient writings substantiating what we can read in current archives of later documents.
Messiah is restoring His house, just be careful not to get sucked into a congregation that stills holds to and imposes some of the traditions and oral laws of Judaism that were nailed to the stake on the flock. Learn to eat the meat and spit out the dead bones where in there is no profit.
http://www.yah-tube.com/videos/rico/Mithras_part1/index.html
http://www.yah-tube.com/videos/rico/Mithras_part2/index.html
Typical straw man argument of the HRM heretics: to claim that one who proclaims the truth of the Holy Spirit’s role and authority in the life of the bride is influenced by fourth-century Constantinian Christianity. Nothing could be further from the truth, patlin; and, while your heart might be providing a proper message, your brain still looks in the wrong place (written law of the old covenant). YHWH’s direction comes directly from His Voice, otherwise known as His Holy Spirit. Always has, always will.
I did a lot of reading at your links yesterday. I have a hard time with the not being filled with the Holy Ghost at the time of turning my life and will over to Jesus” part.
Although it is hard to believe that God dwells in me while I do the “rotten” deeds of my flesh. I like the idea of him indwelling me when his good work is completed.
Thank you I will watch them right now
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