Posted on 12/08/2012 2:24:39 PM PST by NYer
1 Corinthians 4:6 I have applied all these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another.
Jesus had awfully strong words for the Pharisees who added to Scripture.
Paul also added this.....
1 Corinthians 4:6 I have applied all these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another.
Why not read the thread those replies are about?
Why yes Elsie there is.
Remember when you were a girl?
Unless that author was speaking ex cathedra, then there is absolutely nothing that makes his own personal interpretation of Scripture any more or less valid than mine.
Not to mention that I did not interpret the verses. All I did was point out what is patently obvious to anyone who is honest, and that is that those verses do not say what he claims they do.
Even a causal reading of the verses provided demonstrate that they do not say what he claims they say.
The same criticism you have for my interpretation can be legitimately be leveled at him.
This is interesting.
Dialogue between Christ and a Muslim
By Robert Reilly
SATURDAY, 05 JANUARY 2013
34
Scene: Before the heavenly Throne.
Muslim (upon seeing Christ): “Is this a dream?”
Christ: “No. Something much better.”
Muslim: “I didn’t expect to see you here far above everyone. I thought you were coming back at the end of time to break the Cross, as we Muslims believe.”
Christ: “No, I’m not coming back to break the Cross. Rather, I was broken on the Cross, which is why you’re able to appear before me today.”
Muslim: “But we believe that the all-powerful God would not allow one of his prophets to be treated that way. That is why we refuse to believe you were crucified. It was some other man, or a shadow.”
Christ: “But I am not simply one of the prophets. I am God. I chose to allow myself to be treated this way to fulfill what the prophets foretold of the Suffering Servant.”
Muslim: “But God can’t do that! He can’t suffer and die.”
Christ: “Who are you to limit what God can do?”
Muslim: “But we are the true defenders of God’s absolute omnipotence. God is whoever is all powerful.”
Christ: “So, right is the rule of the stronger?”
Muslim: “Yes. God decides because He is the strongest.”
Christ: “And He can decide anything?”
Muslim: “Yes, anything, and whatever He decides is just.”
Christ: “He is not bound even by His own word?”
Muslim: “No, not by anything.”
Christ: “But I am the Word. I am true to Myself. Pure will and power are arbitrary, tyrannical. I would be a despot.”
Muslim: “But we were taught that God cannot be confined by our human ideas of justice.”
Christ: “From where did you think you got those ideas of justice in the first place, if not from Me?”
Muslim: “I don’t know. Islam tells us to submit without questioning. The great al-Ghazali taught us that, ‘the mind. . .once it testifies to the truthfulness of the prophet, must cease to act.’”
Christ the Redeemer by Andrea Mantegna, 1493
Christ: “That it is a betrayal of Me. I seek rational consent, not cowering subjection. Tell me: can the all-powerful God enter his creation?”
Muslim: “Yes, but only through his word to his prophets to give us his commands.”
Christ: “But, as I said, I am the Word.”
Muslim: “But you are flesh.”
Christ: “Yes, the Word made flesh, because God is also Love and wishes to save you. Though I am the strongest, I made myself the weakest out of love for you.”
Muslim: “We are taught that God can only favor us (if we obey Him) because He is complete in Himself, and loving us would indicate some lack in Him. So, this kind of love cannot be. It is a forbidden thought.”
Christ: “You cannot forbid Me. I suffer no lack from this love. I do not need to complete myself, but to complete you. You have a hole in your soul. Only I can fill it. I became man for this purpose.”
Muslim: “Yes, we thought you were a man, certainly not the son of God. That would be blasphemy.”
Christ: “I know. You have a false idea of Me from the Qur’an, just as it mistakenly tells you that the Trinity is composed of Father, Son, and Mary. Neither did you believe that God is your Father, but some infinitely distant, unknowable Being, who could not possibly be in relation to you, except as a master to a slave.”
Muslim: “Yes, that is my name – Abdullah, ‘slave of God.’”
Christ: “But I am the Son of God, who made you my brother. I became human, so you could become divine. That’s how you became children of God. You have no idea how dear you are to me.”
Muslim: “But I can’t possibly be a child of God! God is infinitely above me.”
Christ: “But We made you in our own image and likeness.”
Muslim: “We say in Islam, ‘bila kayfa wala tashbih’ – which is: ‘without asking how and without comparing.’ It is forbidden for us to compare anything to God, much less ourselves. So, I find all this inconceivable.”
Christ: “I know. In fact, it required Conception – my Incarnation. But I am not telling you anything against your reason.”
Muslim: “We abandoned reason and submitted ourselves to the text of the Qur’an.”
Christ: “In doing that, you abandoned me, for I am Logos. I am Reason. That is why my pope, Benedict XVI, proclaimed that, ‘not acting reasonably is contrary to God’s nature.’ This is why so many of you have behaved unreasonably, and why you could not find Me.”
Muslim: “Since we do not believe any of these things, how did I get here then?”
Christ: “You got here by the merits of the very things you deny, my Sonship and my sacrifice, because you had no chance to accept them. You knew nothing but Islam. And yet you lived a good and decent life by the lights you were given. I love you none the less for that. I died for you, too.”
Muslim: “I thought there would be only Muslims here, and that the Christians would be in Hell. But now that I see what the Christians said is true, why am I not in Hell?”
Christ: “I only send to Hell those who choose it. In fact, they send themselves.”
Muslim: “How can you forgive me for being so blind?”
Christ: “You knew not what you were doing.”
Muslim (falling on his knees, forehead to the ground): “My Lord and my God, how can I adore you now?”
Christ: “By loving me back. Now that you see me as I Am, you can do this. Welcome. One of my priests martyred in Algeria in 1998, Fr. Christian, prayed before his death that he ‘could contemplate with the Father his children of Islam as He sees them.’ He is with my Father doing that now. You may join him and see for your self. Then pray for your fellow Muslims that they, too, may see. I want them all for Myself.”
See pm
That would disqualify most if not all of the leadership of the Catholic Church.
narses, I’m Catholic too.
And the pics are becoming really irritating. The boring sign, the cereal box, the constant re-stating of CB’s beliefs.
Just because Elsie does the pic thing does not mean that you need to follow suit.
narses, you are not going to change any minds here. Realize that.
lol, it’s not as if we are talking to Methodists or Lutherans or any mainline group. I would wager (from their postings) that most ‘born agains’ who post here are non-denominational or of the POC variety which has about 30,000 members worldwide.
These people are not open to us. So save your breath and blood pressure.
It most certainly is. And obviously written by someone who does not understand scripture.
Denying who Christ is in this life leads one to hell, not heaven. Is this the Robert Reilly who wrote “The Closing of the Muslim Mind”? And why no link or place where this was taken from?
Yes, agreement, not directed specifically to ‘not gonna....’.
Mea culpa for not being clearer.
The price of asking questions is answering them. That reasonably is how the give and take of these threads should work.
So answer. Are they alive in Heaven?
See #4527. Give and take not order and obey.
4627 not 45
“Who you suppose this “great multitude” is?”
I dunno, do you?
You said: “They are the first fruits of the resurrection, now in heaven preparatory to serving as kings/priests during Christ’s 1000 yr. reign. (Rev. 20:4-6) So they could not represent all Christians but only those chosen to serve as king/priests in heaven.”
Are they alive in Heaven?
Yes, I do know.
As to your question, are they alive it would seem odd (a word you’ve used often) to believe they were in heaven and dead there seeing God is a god of the living and not of the dead. So.....of course they’re alive!?!
“So.....of course they’re alive!?!”
Good, at least you (unlike so many others here) accept the simple truth that there ARE Saints Alive in Heaven. Applause!
Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem;
Creatorem caeli et terrae.
Et in Jesum Christum,
Filium eius unicum, Dominum nostrum;
qui conceptus est
de Spiritu Sancto,
natus ex Maria virgine;
passus sub Pontio Pilato,
crucifixus, mortuus, et sepultus;
descendit ad inferos;
tertia die resurrexit a mortuis;
ascendit ad caelos;
sedet ad dexteram Dei Patris omnipotentis;
inde venturus est
iudicare vivos et mortuos.
Credo in Spiritum Sanctum;
sanctam ecclesiam catholicam;
sanctorum communionem;
remissionem peccatorum;
carnis resurrectionem;
vitam aeternam. Amen.
In English:
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ,
his only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived
by the power of the Holy Spirit,
and born of the Virgin Mary,
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
He descended into hell.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
he will come again
to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen
While I bask in the warm sunshine of your applause and approval of my most minor virtue I’ll pose another wince you’ve posted this credo a few times.
“the resurrection of the body” is part of this credo you believe, yes? What resurrection to where? and what body?
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