Posted on 12/08/2012 2:24:39 PM PST by NYer
Do Catholics worship Mary? This question is as old as the Protestant Reformation itself, and it rests, like other disputed doctrinal points, on a false premise that has been turned into a wedge: the veneration of Mary detracts from the worship of Christ.
This seeming opposition between Mary and Christ is symptomatic of the Protestant tendency, begun by Luther, to view the entirety of Christian life through a dialectical lens – a lens of conflict and division. With the Reformation the integrity of Christianity is broken and its formerly coherent elements are now set in opposition. The Gospel versus the Law. Faith versus Works. Scripture versus Tradition. Authority versus Individuality. Faith versus Reason. Christ versus Mary.
The Catholic tradition rightly sees the mutual complementarity of these elements of the faith, as they all contribute to our ultimate end – living with God now and in eternity. To choose any one of these is to choose them all.
By contrast, to assert that Catholics worship Mary along with or in place of Christ, or that praying to Mary somehow impedes Christ’s role as “the one mediator between God and men” (1 Tim 2:5) is to create a false dichotomy between the Word made flesh and the woman who gave the Word his flesh. No such opposition exists. The one Mediator entrusted his mediation to the will and womb of Mary. She does not impede his mediation – she helps to make it possible.
Within this context we see the ancillary role that the ancilla Domini plays in her divine Son’s mission. Mary’s is not a surrogate womb rented and then forgotten in God’s plan. She is physically connected to Christ and his life, and because of this she is even more deeply connected to him in the order of grace. She is, in fact, “full of grace,” as only one who is redeemed by Christ could be.
The feast of Mary’s Immaculate Conception celebrates the very first act of salvation by Christ in the world. Redemption is made possible for all by his precious blood shed on the cross. Yet Mary’s role in the Savior’s life and mission is so critical and so unique that God saw it necessary to wash her in the blood of the Lamb in advance, at the first moment of her conception.
This reality could not be more Biblical: the angel greets Mary as “full of grace” (Luke 1:28), which is literally rendered as “already graced” (kecharitōmenē). Following Mary, the Church has “pondered what sort of greeting this might be” for centuries. The dogma of the Immaculate Conception, ultimately defined in 1854, is nothing other than a rational expression of the angel’s greeting contained in Scripture: Mary is “already graced” with Christ’s redemption at the very moment of her creation.
Because God called Mary to the unique vocation of serving as the Mother of God, it is not just her soul that is graced, as is the case for us when we receive the sacraments. Mary’s entire being, body and soul, is full of grace so that she may be a worthy ark for the New Covenant. And just as the ark of the old covenant was adorned with gold to be a worthy house for God’s word, Mary is conceived without original sin to be the living and holy house for God’s Word.
Thus Mary is not only conceived immaculately, that is, without stain of sin. She also is the Immaculate Conception. Her entire being was specifically created by God with unique privilege so that she could fulfill her role in God’s plan of salvation. “Free from sin,” both original and personal, is the necessary consequence of being “full of grace.”
Protestants claim that veneration of Mary as it is practiced by Catholics is not biblical. St. Paul encouraged the Corinthians to “be imitators of me, as I am of Christ” (1 Cor 11:1). Paul is not holding himself up as the end goal, but as a means to Christ, the true end. And if a person is imitated, he is simultaneously venerated.
If we should imitate Paul, how much more should we imitate Mary, who fulfilled God’s will to the greatest degree a human being could. Throughout her life she humbled herself so that God could be exalted, and because of this, Christ has fulfilled his promise by exalting his lowly mother to the seat closest to him in God’s kingdom.
Mary is the model of humility, charity, and openness to the will of God. She allows a sword to pierce her heart for the sake of the world’s salvation. She shows us the greatness to which we are called: a life free from sin and filled with God’s grace that leads to union with God in Heaven. She is the model disciple, and therefore worthy of imitation and veneration, not as an end in herself, but as the means to the very purpose of her – and our – existence: Christ himself.
God’s lowly handmaiden would not want it any other way.
1 Corinthians 4:6 I have applied all these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another.
Jesus had awfully strong words for the Pharisees who added to Scripture.
Paul also added this.....
1 Corinthians 4:6 I have applied all these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another.
Why not read the thread those replies are about?
Why yes Elsie there is.
Remember when you were a girl?
Unless that author was speaking ex cathedra, then there is absolutely nothing that makes his own personal interpretation of Scripture any more or less valid than mine.
Not to mention that I did not interpret the verses. All I did was point out what is patently obvious to anyone who is honest, and that is that those verses do not say what he claims they do.
Even a causal reading of the verses provided demonstrate that they do not say what he claims they say.
The same criticism you have for my interpretation can be legitimately be leveled at him.
This is interesting.
Dialogue between Christ and a Muslim
By Robert Reilly
SATURDAY, 05 JANUARY 2013
34
Scene: Before the heavenly Throne.
Muslim (upon seeing Christ): “Is this a dream?”
Christ: “No. Something much better.”
Muslim: “I didn’t expect to see you here far above everyone. I thought you were coming back at the end of time to break the Cross, as we Muslims believe.”
Christ: “No, I’m not coming back to break the Cross. Rather, I was broken on the Cross, which is why you’re able to appear before me today.”
Muslim: “But we believe that the all-powerful God would not allow one of his prophets to be treated that way. That is why we refuse to believe you were crucified. It was some other man, or a shadow.”
Christ: “But I am not simply one of the prophets. I am God. I chose to allow myself to be treated this way to fulfill what the prophets foretold of the Suffering Servant.”
Muslim: “But God can’t do that! He can’t suffer and die.”
Christ: “Who are you to limit what God can do?”
Muslim: “But we are the true defenders of God’s absolute omnipotence. God is whoever is all powerful.”
Christ: “So, right is the rule of the stronger?”
Muslim: “Yes. God decides because He is the strongest.”
Christ: “And He can decide anything?”
Muslim: “Yes, anything, and whatever He decides is just.”
Christ: “He is not bound even by His own word?”
Muslim: “No, not by anything.”
Christ: “But I am the Word. I am true to Myself. Pure will and power are arbitrary, tyrannical. I would be a despot.”
Muslim: “But we were taught that God cannot be confined by our human ideas of justice.”
Christ: “From where did you think you got those ideas of justice in the first place, if not from Me?”
Muslim: “I don’t know. Islam tells us to submit without questioning. The great al-Ghazali taught us that, ‘the mind. . .once it testifies to the truthfulness of the prophet, must cease to act.’”
Christ the Redeemer by Andrea Mantegna, 1493
Christ: “That it is a betrayal of Me. I seek rational consent, not cowering subjection. Tell me: can the all-powerful God enter his creation?”
Muslim: “Yes, but only through his word to his prophets to give us his commands.”
Christ: “But, as I said, I am the Word.”
Muslim: “But you are flesh.”
Christ: “Yes, the Word made flesh, because God is also Love and wishes to save you. Though I am the strongest, I made myself the weakest out of love for you.”
Muslim: “We are taught that God can only favor us (if we obey Him) because He is complete in Himself, and loving us would indicate some lack in Him. So, this kind of love cannot be. It is a forbidden thought.”
Christ: “You cannot forbid Me. I suffer no lack from this love. I do not need to complete myself, but to complete you. You have a hole in your soul. Only I can fill it. I became man for this purpose.”
Muslim: “Yes, we thought you were a man, certainly not the son of God. That would be blasphemy.”
Christ: “I know. You have a false idea of Me from the Qur’an, just as it mistakenly tells you that the Trinity is composed of Father, Son, and Mary. Neither did you believe that God is your Father, but some infinitely distant, unknowable Being, who could not possibly be in relation to you, except as a master to a slave.”
Muslim: “Yes, that is my name – Abdullah, ‘slave of God.’”
Christ: “But I am the Son of God, who made you my brother. I became human, so you could become divine. That’s how you became children of God. You have no idea how dear you are to me.”
Muslim: “But I can’t possibly be a child of God! God is infinitely above me.”
Christ: “But We made you in our own image and likeness.”
Muslim: “We say in Islam, ‘bila kayfa wala tashbih’ – which is: ‘without asking how and without comparing.’ It is forbidden for us to compare anything to God, much less ourselves. So, I find all this inconceivable.”
Christ: “I know. In fact, it required Conception – my Incarnation. But I am not telling you anything against your reason.”
Muslim: “We abandoned reason and submitted ourselves to the text of the Qur’an.”
Christ: “In doing that, you abandoned me, for I am Logos. I am Reason. That is why my pope, Benedict XVI, proclaimed that, ‘not acting reasonably is contrary to God’s nature.’ This is why so many of you have behaved unreasonably, and why you could not find Me.”
Muslim: “Since we do not believe any of these things, how did I get here then?”
Christ: “You got here by the merits of the very things you deny, my Sonship and my sacrifice, because you had no chance to accept them. You knew nothing but Islam. And yet you lived a good and decent life by the lights you were given. I love you none the less for that. I died for you, too.”
Muslim: “I thought there would be only Muslims here, and that the Christians would be in Hell. But now that I see what the Christians said is true, why am I not in Hell?”
Christ: “I only send to Hell those who choose it. In fact, they send themselves.”
Muslim: “How can you forgive me for being so blind?”
Christ: “You knew not what you were doing.”
Muslim (falling on his knees, forehead to the ground): “My Lord and my God, how can I adore you now?”
Christ: “By loving me back. Now that you see me as I Am, you can do this. Welcome. One of my priests martyred in Algeria in 1998, Fr. Christian, prayed before his death that he ‘could contemplate with the Father his children of Islam as He sees them.’ He is with my Father doing that now. You may join him and see for your self. Then pray for your fellow Muslims that they, too, may see. I want them all for Myself.”
See pm
That would disqualify most if not all of the leadership of the Catholic Church.
narses, I’m Catholic too.
And the pics are becoming really irritating. The boring sign, the cereal box, the constant re-stating of CB’s beliefs.
Just because Elsie does the pic thing does not mean that you need to follow suit.
narses, you are not going to change any minds here. Realize that.
lol, it’s not as if we are talking to Methodists or Lutherans or any mainline group. I would wager (from their postings) that most ‘born agains’ who post here are non-denominational or of the POC variety which has about 30,000 members worldwide.
These people are not open to us. So save your breath and blood pressure.
It most certainly is. And obviously written by someone who does not understand scripture.
Denying who Christ is in this life leads one to hell, not heaven. Is this the Robert Reilly who wrote “The Closing of the Muslim Mind”? And why no link or place where this was taken from?
Yes, agreement, not directed specifically to ‘not gonna....’.
Mea culpa for not being clearer.
The price of asking questions is answering them. That reasonably is how the give and take of these threads should work.
So answer. Are they alive in Heaven?
See #4527. Give and take not order and obey.
4627 not 45
“Who you suppose this “great multitude” is?”
I dunno, do you?
You said: “They are the first fruits of the resurrection, now in heaven preparatory to serving as kings/priests during Christ’s 1000 yr. reign. (Rev. 20:4-6) So they could not represent all Christians but only those chosen to serve as king/priests in heaven.”
Are they alive in Heaven?
Yes, I do know.
As to your question, are they alive it would seem odd (a word you’ve used often) to believe they were in heaven and dead there seeing God is a god of the living and not of the dead. So.....of course they’re alive!?!
“So.....of course they’re alive!?!”
Good, at least you (unlike so many others here) accept the simple truth that there ARE Saints Alive in Heaven. Applause!
Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem;
Creatorem caeli et terrae.
Et in Jesum Christum,
Filium eius unicum, Dominum nostrum;
qui conceptus est
de Spiritu Sancto,
natus ex Maria virgine;
passus sub Pontio Pilato,
crucifixus, mortuus, et sepultus;
descendit ad inferos;
tertia die resurrexit a mortuis;
ascendit ad caelos;
sedet ad dexteram Dei Patris omnipotentis;
inde venturus est
iudicare vivos et mortuos.
Credo in Spiritum Sanctum;
sanctam ecclesiam catholicam;
sanctorum communionem;
remissionem peccatorum;
carnis resurrectionem;
vitam aeternam. Amen.
In English:
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ,
his only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived
by the power of the Holy Spirit,
and born of the Virgin Mary,
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
He descended into hell.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
he will come again
to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen
While I bask in the warm sunshine of your applause and approval of my most minor virtue I’ll pose another wince you’ve posted this credo a few times.
“the resurrection of the body” is part of this credo you believe, yes? What resurrection to where? and what body?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.