Posted on 12/08/2012 2:24:39 PM PST by NYer
Do Catholics worship Mary? This question is as old as the Protestant Reformation itself, and it rests, like other disputed doctrinal points, on a false premise that has been turned into a wedge: the veneration of Mary detracts from the worship of Christ.
This seeming opposition between Mary and Christ is symptomatic of the Protestant tendency, begun by Luther, to view the entirety of Christian life through a dialectical lens – a lens of conflict and division. With the Reformation the integrity of Christianity is broken and its formerly coherent elements are now set in opposition. The Gospel versus the Law. Faith versus Works. Scripture versus Tradition. Authority versus Individuality. Faith versus Reason. Christ versus Mary.
The Catholic tradition rightly sees the mutual complementarity of these elements of the faith, as they all contribute to our ultimate end – living with God now and in eternity. To choose any one of these is to choose them all.
By contrast, to assert that Catholics worship Mary along with or in place of Christ, or that praying to Mary somehow impedes Christ’s role as “the one mediator between God and men” (1 Tim 2:5) is to create a false dichotomy between the Word made flesh and the woman who gave the Word his flesh. No such opposition exists. The one Mediator entrusted his mediation to the will and womb of Mary. She does not impede his mediation – she helps to make it possible.
Within this context we see the ancillary role that the ancilla Domini plays in her divine Son’s mission. Mary’s is not a surrogate womb rented and then forgotten in God’s plan. She is physically connected to Christ and his life, and because of this she is even more deeply connected to him in the order of grace. She is, in fact, “full of grace,” as only one who is redeemed by Christ could be.
The feast of Mary’s Immaculate Conception celebrates the very first act of salvation by Christ in the world. Redemption is made possible for all by his precious blood shed on the cross. Yet Mary’s role in the Savior’s life and mission is so critical and so unique that God saw it necessary to wash her in the blood of the Lamb in advance, at the first moment of her conception.
This reality could not be more Biblical: the angel greets Mary as “full of grace” (Luke 1:28), which is literally rendered as “already graced” (kecharitōmenē). Following Mary, the Church has “pondered what sort of greeting this might be” for centuries. The dogma of the Immaculate Conception, ultimately defined in 1854, is nothing other than a rational expression of the angel’s greeting contained in Scripture: Mary is “already graced” with Christ’s redemption at the very moment of her creation.
Because God called Mary to the unique vocation of serving as the Mother of God, it is not just her soul that is graced, as is the case for us when we receive the sacraments. Mary’s entire being, body and soul, is full of grace so that she may be a worthy ark for the New Covenant. And just as the ark of the old covenant was adorned with gold to be a worthy house for God’s word, Mary is conceived without original sin to be the living and holy house for God’s Word.
Thus Mary is not only conceived immaculately, that is, without stain of sin. She also is the Immaculate Conception. Her entire being was specifically created by God with unique privilege so that she could fulfill her role in God’s plan of salvation. “Free from sin,” both original and personal, is the necessary consequence of being “full of grace.”
Protestants claim that veneration of Mary as it is practiced by Catholics is not biblical. St. Paul encouraged the Corinthians to “be imitators of me, as I am of Christ” (1 Cor 11:1). Paul is not holding himself up as the end goal, but as a means to Christ, the true end. And if a person is imitated, he is simultaneously venerated.
If we should imitate Paul, how much more should we imitate Mary, who fulfilled God’s will to the greatest degree a human being could. Throughout her life she humbled herself so that God could be exalted, and because of this, Christ has fulfilled his promise by exalting his lowly mother to the seat closest to him in God’s kingdom.
Mary is the model of humility, charity, and openness to the will of God. She allows a sword to pierce her heart for the sake of the world’s salvation. She shows us the greatness to which we are called: a life free from sin and filled with God’s grace that leads to union with God in Heaven. She is the model disciple, and therefore worthy of imitation and veneration, not as an end in herself, but as the means to the very purpose of her – and our – existence: Christ himself.
God’s lowly handmaiden would not want it any other way.
Thank you; however you don’t need to “introduce” me to the scripture; my Church already did this before you came along.
746 wasn’t mine.
show me where she ever disagreed with that.
True. That and exposure to lessen any influence on others.
See post 737 please.
I treated that subject fully in 666 and gave a complete set of linguistic explanations from this thread in 729. I have nothing to add to them, but if you have a question I will answer.
Of course you would think so. That list is from those who are experts on what cults are and teach. That is not my list.
>>I think your “cult” qualifies on at least numbers 5-9. Possibly #1.<<
What cult do you think I belong to? I belong to organized religion whatsoever. I simply am a member of the body of Christ by virtue of being a believer in Him. I look to no one but Him.
“”Actually, there is a book called “New Age medicine”
D1212, I don’t know of this book , but the subject of the New Age Movement was something I spent a lot of time( 2 full years) on working with protestants to help expose the problems they were having within their Churches.
This is actually a subject where we can find common ground as I found out. The thing is, that the Catholic/Orthodox Church has been battling these old heresies for over 2000 years and there is nothing new about the NA movement at all, it’s just the same old errors with a modern spin to it.
Most of the protestants of I have dealt with on this subject appreciate the fact that I could show them early Christian writing that refuted similarities of NA ideas
Anyway, the most thorough document ever produced on this subject is this one. I encourage you to read it, it will really help you on this subject
JESUS CHRIST
THE BEARER OF THE WATER OF LIFE
A Christian reflection
on the “New Age
Once again your dedicated study of the subject at hand exhibits itself. I’m sure we all look forward to your studied contributions to the subject matter with anticipation.
“That list is from those who are experts on what cults are and teach.”
Right. Like who? Links maybe?
The cult of you of course. It fits the list.
Show from New Testament scripture where those who became followers of Christ became poor through God’s blessing them.
Stfassi- Jesus is God and the Trinity are true.Do you agree?
CB-show me where she ever disagreed with that.
I’m asking if she agrees that Jesus is God and if She believes in the Trinity.
It;s a question
“That list is from those who are experts on what cults are and teach.”
Right. Like who? Links maybe?
{{{CRICKETS}}}}
Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
And you think that God commanded the brazen serpent which was a “graven image” but let’s see what happened to that.
2Kings 18:4 He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.
Would Catholics crush the statues of Mary or any of the Saints into dust or have they become idols?
So you have no pictures of loved ones?
I belong to organized religion whatsoever. I simply am a member of the body of Christ by virtue of being a believer in Him. I look to no one but Him.
Rejecting all other religious authority. Body of Christ - according to you; 'believer' according to you (what one must believe); in Him according to you (who Christ is as only you determine). And of course, Holy Scripture according to you.
Thus the parts of your list that refer to a leader with special authority making all decisions and dogma, intolerant of others, etc. apply to your cult - whether it is a cult of one or one who influences others.
I keep telling the RC’s that it’s in my posting history, all they have to do is read it.
At this point though, it’s just an opportunistic tactic. I’m not caught off guard and not going to go along with the thread hijacking.
You may really want to believe that but the truth is much different. http://stopbaptistpredators.org/index.htm
They themselves said so when they took their vows.
Find for me from scripture where the disciples taught that Mary was to be revered or that they taught that Mary was bodily taken to heaven.
They simply revered her: Luke 11:27. St. John saw her in heaven, Apocalypse/Revelation 12 whole chapter.
where we are to pray to Mary.
The example is John 2:3, where Mary intercedes for a human need.
Now, where is it written in the Holy Scripture that unless there is an instruction to do something written down in it, we should not do it?
Vicar of Christ in not Christ and does not claim to be.
Ephesians 2:8-9 seems to teach one thing if you remove verse 10. Together, and better start with verse 4 through 10, that passage teaches what is the Catohlic teaching, that we are saved by Grace alone, which is not from works but is rather a divine gift, and that we must do good works. Read the scripture every now and then and you will be Catholic, like me, and understand it.
The rest of your "cult" points are equally nonsense, or apply to any organization beside a cult, including your "churches".
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