Posted on 12/08/2012 2:24:39 PM PST by NYer
Do Catholics worship Mary? This question is as old as the Protestant Reformation itself, and it rests, like other disputed doctrinal points, on a false premise that has been turned into a wedge: the veneration of Mary detracts from the worship of Christ.
This seeming opposition between Mary and Christ is symptomatic of the Protestant tendency, begun by Luther, to view the entirety of Christian life through a dialectical lens – a lens of conflict and division. With the Reformation the integrity of Christianity is broken and its formerly coherent elements are now set in opposition. The Gospel versus the Law. Faith versus Works. Scripture versus Tradition. Authority versus Individuality. Faith versus Reason. Christ versus Mary.
The Catholic tradition rightly sees the mutual complementarity of these elements of the faith, as they all contribute to our ultimate end – living with God now and in eternity. To choose any one of these is to choose them all.
By contrast, to assert that Catholics worship Mary along with or in place of Christ, or that praying to Mary somehow impedes Christ’s role as “the one mediator between God and men” (1 Tim 2:5) is to create a false dichotomy between the Word made flesh and the woman who gave the Word his flesh. No such opposition exists. The one Mediator entrusted his mediation to the will and womb of Mary. She does not impede his mediation – she helps to make it possible.
Within this context we see the ancillary role that the ancilla Domini plays in her divine Son’s mission. Mary’s is not a surrogate womb rented and then forgotten in God’s plan. She is physically connected to Christ and his life, and because of this she is even more deeply connected to him in the order of grace. She is, in fact, “full of grace,” as only one who is redeemed by Christ could be.
The feast of Mary’s Immaculate Conception celebrates the very first act of salvation by Christ in the world. Redemption is made possible for all by his precious blood shed on the cross. Yet Mary’s role in the Savior’s life and mission is so critical and so unique that God saw it necessary to wash her in the blood of the Lamb in advance, at the first moment of her conception.
This reality could not be more Biblical: the angel greets Mary as “full of grace” (Luke 1:28), which is literally rendered as “already graced” (kecharitōmenē). Following Mary, the Church has “pondered what sort of greeting this might be” for centuries. The dogma of the Immaculate Conception, ultimately defined in 1854, is nothing other than a rational expression of the angel’s greeting contained in Scripture: Mary is “already graced” with Christ’s redemption at the very moment of her creation.
Because God called Mary to the unique vocation of serving as the Mother of God, it is not just her soul that is graced, as is the case for us when we receive the sacraments. Mary’s entire being, body and soul, is full of grace so that she may be a worthy ark for the New Covenant. And just as the ark of the old covenant was adorned with gold to be a worthy house for God’s word, Mary is conceived without original sin to be the living and holy house for God’s Word.
Thus Mary is not only conceived immaculately, that is, without stain of sin. She also is the Immaculate Conception. Her entire being was specifically created by God with unique privilege so that she could fulfill her role in God’s plan of salvation. “Free from sin,” both original and personal, is the necessary consequence of being “full of grace.”
Protestants claim that veneration of Mary as it is practiced by Catholics is not biblical. St. Paul encouraged the Corinthians to “be imitators of me, as I am of Christ” (1 Cor 11:1). Paul is not holding himself up as the end goal, but as a means to Christ, the true end. And if a person is imitated, he is simultaneously venerated.
If we should imitate Paul, how much more should we imitate Mary, who fulfilled God’s will to the greatest degree a human being could. Throughout her life she humbled herself so that God could be exalted, and because of this, Christ has fulfilled his promise by exalting his lowly mother to the seat closest to him in God’s kingdom.
Mary is the model of humility, charity, and openness to the will of God. She allows a sword to pierce her heart for the sake of the world’s salvation. She shows us the greatness to which we are called: a life free from sin and filled with God’s grace that leads to union with God in Heaven. She is the model disciple, and therefore worthy of imitation and veneration, not as an end in herself, but as the means to the very purpose of her – and our – existence: Christ himself.
God’s lowly handmaiden would not want it any other way.
LOL!!
YOU can't - He's already HOME. You are impugning yourself - so knock yourself out!
I have enjoyed all of this thread, and have been reading as rapidly as I can to catch up. Post 666 sums up the RCC in a nutshell. A word means nothing except what the RCC says it means, except when it doesn’t!
I remember somebody “testifying”. ... “it depends on what the definition of ‘is’ is...”! Same, same, ...shame on them!
It is difficult to overcome a lifetime ritualistic lifestyle, and many people will end up in hell because they “can’t see the forest for the trees”! For another example, see Islamists. At least the RC’s no longer allow torture and burning deaths ( which they will deny even happened).
My dime’s-worth (inflation, ya’ know)...
better than me, I'm just doing spot posts. Now I'll check out 666!
My dime’s-worth (inflation, ya’ know)...
It's better than my 2 cents! ;) Thanks for your input.
666 - exactly! Their own teachings/doctrines, their own church, their own language, their own interpretation - all worldly and all gibberish!
You can bring a horse to water but you can’t make him drink it. They aren’t thirsty for TRUTH.
Paul addressed those proud Romans...
Romans 8: 1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,[b] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life[d] because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of[e] his Spirit who lives in you.
12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship.[f] And by him we cry, “Abba,[g] Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. ...NIV
...for the complete text and references-
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+8&version=NIV
According to you, it's about opinion. According to me it's about TRUTH!
Are you Catholic or what is your knowledge of monasticism deriving from?
What does being Catholic have to do about TRUTH? Nothing!
Jesus is the The Way, THE TRUTH, the Life! There is ONLY ONE TRUTH - JESUS, The WORD.
They forbid people to marry...
"They" have a seared consciences and are hypocritical liars. So what they forbid is coming from a liar.
" Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron." 2 Tim 4:2
"They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 2 Tim 4:3
Romans is done masterfully by Paul as the Spirit led him. It tells us, Holy Spirit filled Christians, (God’s children) who we are ‘in Christ’! And I say ‘AMEN’!!
I sure don't!
Why did the 'church' need to DEVELOPE; if it was the way JESUS set it up?
Does BITE ME sound a bit harsh?
another:
Ignorance is a terrible thing to lose.
For once you do; you can never get it back.
Since you do not wish to ANSWER a question, but ask another; I'll follow your example and ask, "Does Satan CAUSE cancer?"
A statement like this makes me DOUBT you passed Logic 101.
But, back to your question: Do not my posts indicate just what I am?
Like my cellphone’s unlimited minutes; your use of this cute cereal box must be quite similar.
I’d like to be the one collecting royalties for it!
Once CONTROL of the dissemination of information got away from the ‘church’; all Hell broke loose! There was NO way to control the message after Guttenberg.
Liberals have a few more years, at best, of having the 'media' in their pocket; as the 'net will supply the information.
If we Conservatives fail to keep it out of their hands; then the game is TRULY over.
 'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, ' it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.'
'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.' 'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.' |
Just on FRIDAY (iff'n yer Catholic)
and ALL the time (iff'n yer MORMON)
Yes, God heals (I have been healed of a hernia, thank God) and delivers and provides miraculously, and faith for such to presently be seen is one aspect of believing. The other is enduring when healing/deliverance does not come and awaits future realization.
In Hebrews “Hall of Faith,” some “escaped the edge of the sword,” while “others” (key word) were “sawn asunder.” Both had faith, but the “word of faith” movement - the big preachers of which overall testify to a lack of faith in their constant and manipulative fundraising - does not preach the enduring aspect of faith, and which is a mark of maturity, and those who have seen the immediate deliverance also must learn the enduring faith, as Peter and Paul etc., did.
The daily devotional, “Streams in the desert,” by Mrs Charles E Cowman, missionaries who had seen healings, etc. but whose husband endured debilitating sickness for 6 years till death, has edified me in the past: http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=q2aih07n1t3ldbhtgul7h05jl4&topic=9682.0
But the Lord will come in clouds, not simply physical ones, but in times which will make it seem that God has forsaken His own, thus Jesus words,
“And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? “ (Luke 18:7-8)
And i am preaching to myself as one that needs more faith in my trials, though i have often seen God’s deliverance and providence.
Santa Claus?
PRESS RELEASE: Santa Claus to Congress: Be Nice, Pass Tax Cuts for 98 Percent of Americans
Posted December 12, 2012
Father Christmas joins fiscal showdown negotiations, encourages Congressional leaders to remember the poorest and most vulnerable
WASHINGTON – Christmas came two weeks early to Capitol Hill. Santa Claus himself made an emergency appearance on the East Lawn of the US Capitol Building today, urging Congressional leaders to avoid the so-called “fiscal cliff” and get on to the business of passing tax relief for millions of American families.
Speaking at a press conference, Claus implored lawmakers to put partisan posturing aside and work together to help struggling families and not hold out for low taxes for the very wealthy.
“There is still time,” said Claus. “You all know I keep a very famous list. I assure you that I am checking it twice--each day--and very soon you’ll all know who has been naughty and who has been nice.”
Claus, famous for his annual holiday deliveries, said he’s grown to understand many of the families he meets every year are struggling to find real solutions for child care, job loss and medical care, and the “fiscal cliff” is the last thing these hurting families need.
http://www.catholics-united.org/
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