Posted on 12/08/2012 2:24:39 PM PST by NYer
Do Catholics worship Mary? This question is as old as the Protestant Reformation itself, and it rests, like other disputed doctrinal points, on a false premise that has been turned into a wedge: the veneration of Mary detracts from the worship of Christ.
This seeming opposition between Mary and Christ is symptomatic of the Protestant tendency, begun by Luther, to view the entirety of Christian life through a dialectical lens – a lens of conflict and division. With the Reformation the integrity of Christianity is broken and its formerly coherent elements are now set in opposition. The Gospel versus the Law. Faith versus Works. Scripture versus Tradition. Authority versus Individuality. Faith versus Reason. Christ versus Mary.
The Catholic tradition rightly sees the mutual complementarity of these elements of the faith, as they all contribute to our ultimate end – living with God now and in eternity. To choose any one of these is to choose them all.
By contrast, to assert that Catholics worship Mary along with or in place of Christ, or that praying to Mary somehow impedes Christ’s role as “the one mediator between God and men” (1 Tim 2:5) is to create a false dichotomy between the Word made flesh and the woman who gave the Word his flesh. No such opposition exists. The one Mediator entrusted his mediation to the will and womb of Mary. She does not impede his mediation – she helps to make it possible.
Within this context we see the ancillary role that the ancilla Domini plays in her divine Son’s mission. Mary’s is not a surrogate womb rented and then forgotten in God’s plan. She is physically connected to Christ and his life, and because of this she is even more deeply connected to him in the order of grace. She is, in fact, “full of grace,” as only one who is redeemed by Christ could be.
The feast of Mary’s Immaculate Conception celebrates the very first act of salvation by Christ in the world. Redemption is made possible for all by his precious blood shed on the cross. Yet Mary’s role in the Savior’s life and mission is so critical and so unique that God saw it necessary to wash her in the blood of the Lamb in advance, at the first moment of her conception.
This reality could not be more Biblical: the angel greets Mary as “full of grace” (Luke 1:28), which is literally rendered as “already graced” (kecharitōmenē). Following Mary, the Church has “pondered what sort of greeting this might be” for centuries. The dogma of the Immaculate Conception, ultimately defined in 1854, is nothing other than a rational expression of the angel’s greeting contained in Scripture: Mary is “already graced” with Christ’s redemption at the very moment of her creation.
Because God called Mary to the unique vocation of serving as the Mother of God, it is not just her soul that is graced, as is the case for us when we receive the sacraments. Mary’s entire being, body and soul, is full of grace so that she may be a worthy ark for the New Covenant. And just as the ark of the old covenant was adorned with gold to be a worthy house for God’s word, Mary is conceived without original sin to be the living and holy house for God’s Word.
Thus Mary is not only conceived immaculately, that is, without stain of sin. She also is the Immaculate Conception. Her entire being was specifically created by God with unique privilege so that she could fulfill her role in God’s plan of salvation. “Free from sin,” both original and personal, is the necessary consequence of being “full of grace.”
Protestants claim that veneration of Mary as it is practiced by Catholics is not biblical. St. Paul encouraged the Corinthians to “be imitators of me, as I am of Christ” (1 Cor 11:1). Paul is not holding himself up as the end goal, but as a means to Christ, the true end. And if a person is imitated, he is simultaneously venerated.
If we should imitate Paul, how much more should we imitate Mary, who fulfilled God’s will to the greatest degree a human being could. Throughout her life she humbled herself so that God could be exalted, and because of this, Christ has fulfilled his promise by exalting his lowly mother to the seat closest to him in God’s kingdom.
Mary is the model of humility, charity, and openness to the will of God. She allows a sword to pierce her heart for the sake of the world’s salvation. She shows us the greatness to which we are called: a life free from sin and filled with God’s grace that leads to union with God in Heaven. She is the model disciple, and therefore worthy of imitation and veneration, not as an end in herself, but as the means to the very purpose of her – and our – existence: Christ himself.
God’s lowly handmaiden would not want it any other way.
Notice this says Your feasts as opposed to My Feasts... There is a clue there. ; )
There is to Spirit filled Christians.
“...Bring no more vain oblations;...etc.”
The key word here is VAIN - the new oblations are not VAIN because all things are new in Christ. Isaiah does not say bring no more oblations - he says bring no more VAIN ones. Without Christ they remain vain, when done in Christ and following HIS example these things are no longer vain (i.e., without merit). Do you get it? This is about understanding what the bible is truly saying, not extra biblical.
Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Who you suppose this “great multitude” is? I didn’t see what the source of the “footnote” was,
“...use not vain repetitions...”
Matthew does NOT tell us not to use repetitions - Matthew tells us not to use VAIN repetitions. To do something in vain means, worthless, useless. Repetitions that are worthwhile, useful, related to a Truth are fine!! It is not the repetition that is wrong - it is the vain (phrase that does not reflect a truth) part that is being warned against. For example, calling upon the name of Jesus over and over again as a supplication when in severe danger is not done in vain and is certainly allowed.
4 He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, 5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church?
6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7 Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.
Titus 1:5-9 5 This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you— 6 if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination. 7 For an overseer, as God's steward, must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, 8 but hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined. 9 He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.
http://biblos.com/1_timothy/3-2.htm
episkopon
http://biblesuite.com/greek/1985.htm
Short Definition: overseer, supervisor, ruler
Definition: (used as an official title in civil life), overseer, supervisor, ruler, especially used with reference to the supervising function exercised by an elder or presbyter of a church or congregation.
1985 epískopos (a masculine noun, derived from 1909 /epí, "on/fitting contact," which intensifies 4649 /skopós, "look intently," like at an end-marker concluding a race) – properly, an overseer; a man called by God to literally "keep an eye on" His flock (the Church, the body of Christ), i.e. to provide personalized (first hand) care and protection (note the epi, "on").
"Though in some contexts 1985 (epískopos) has been regarded traditionally as a position of authority, in reality the focus is upon the responsibility for caring for others" (L & N, 1, 35.40).
One of the requirements for elders/overseers, is that they be married and Paul gives the reason in Timothy.
That would disqualify most if not all of the leadership of the Catholic Church.
RM already had many of them removed, yet we see the same tired stuff.. We've seen the cereal box and other snarky pics, too many times, with no intelligent discoourse...it’s personal, it’s not edifying, and it’s...
certainly doing NOTHING towards making me want to go running back into the arms of the RCC.
So they are ALIVE in Heaven, yes?
That would disqualify most if not all of the leadership of the Catholic Church.Only in the odd view of folks who rewrite scripture to suit their antipathy to the One True Church.
And the actual translation in blue, with links to a parallel version and further links to the Greek to verify.
1 Tim 2:3 - because this subordinate mediation is good and acceptable to God our Savior. Because God is our Father and we are His children, God invites us to participate in Christ’s role as mediator.
The second bolded sentence does NOT appear in the Greek.
1 Timothy 2:3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,
http://bible.cc/1_timothy/2-3.htm
1 Timothy 2:5 therefore, although Jesus Christ is the sole mediator between God and man, there are many intercessors (subordinate mediators).
http://bible.cc/1_timothy/2-5.htm
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
Again, the Catholic link adds to Scripture.
This next quote from the Catholic site is NOT Scripture, even though implied but preceding it with a chapter and verse. It does not even remotely suggest what the author implies.
1 Cor. 3:9 - God invites us to participate in Christ’s work because we are God’s “fellow workers” and one family in the body of Christ. God wants His children to participate. The phrase used to describe “fellow workers” is “sunergoi,” which literally means synergists, or cooperators with God in salvific matters. Does God need fellow workers? Of course not, but this shows how much He, as Father, loves His children. God wants us to work with Him.
1 Corinthians 3:5-9 5 What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each. 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. 7 So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth. 8 He who plants and he who waters are one, and each will receive his wages according to his labor. 9 For we are God's fellow workers. You are God's field, God's building.
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/3-9.htm
Another Scripture reference without actually quoting the verse but simply rendering the author's interpretation, which again, is quite wrong.
Mark 16:20 - this is another example of how the Lord “worked with them” (”sunergountos”). God cooperates with us. Out of His eternal love, He invites our participation.
Mark 16:20 And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by accompanying signs.
http://bible.cc/mark/16-20.htm
Still another statement dishonestly portrayed as Scripture by preceding it with a reference, and again, it does NOT state what the author says....
Rom. 8:28 - God “works for good with” (the Greek is “sunergei eis agathon”) those who love Him. We work as subordinate mediators.
Romans 8:28
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
http://bible.cc/romans/8-28.htm
And it keeps on going with this one, as with the following two verses. Again, not actual quotes from Scripture yet portrayed as being such and again, not saying what the author says they say.
2 Cor. 6:1 - “working together” (the Greek is “sunergountes”) with him, don’t accept His grace in vain. God allows us to participate in His work, not because He needs our help, but because He loves us and wants to exalt us in His Son. It is like the father who lets his child join him in carrying the groceries in the house. The father does not need help, but he invites the child to assist to raise up the child in dignity and love.
2:Corinthians 6:1 Working together with him, then, we appeal to you not to receive the grace of God in vain.
http://bible.cc/2_corinthians/6-1.htm
Heb. 12:1 - the “cloud of witnesses” (nephos marturon) that we are surrounded by is a great amphitheatre of witnesses to the earthly race, and they actively participate and cheer us (the runners) on, in our race to salvation.
Hebrews 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
http://bible.cc/hebrews/12-1.htm
1 Peter 2:5 - we are a holy priesthood, instructed to offer spiritual sacrifices to God. We are therefore subordinate priests to the Head Priest, but we are still priests who participate in Christ’s work of redemption.
1 Peter 2:4-5 4 As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, 5 you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
http://bible.cc/1_peter/2-5.htm
There is absolutely NOTHING in any of those verses which even remotely suggests that saints intercede for us, nor that we are to pray to them. Those verses do not support that doctrine.
You noticed that, did you?
It’s astonishing isn’t it? You would think that after seeing so many errors a person would begin to at least realize there is a problem with the RCC teaching. Time and time again we find the “officially sanctioned” Bibles the Catholics use are not in sync with either the Greek or the Hebrew. One can only wonder at the wide eyed amazement and horror those during the Reformation who finally were able to read for themselves had. There’s no excuse for the delusion in this day and age. If Catholics continue to rely on the RCC alone for their “interpretation” there is no recourse.
I’ve never posted any.
LOL I think he was just agreeing with your previous post there. I had to go back and check myself because I didn’t remember you posting any but you had said enough with the pictures so he was just agreeing with you.
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