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To: narses; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; count-your-change; ...
From Scripturecatholic.com... (in green with added portions not found in Scripture bolded..)

And the actual translation in blue, with links to a parallel version and further links to the Greek to verify.

1 Tim 2:3 - because this subordinate mediation is good and acceptable to God our Savior. Because God is our Father and we are His children, God invites us to participate in Christ’s role as mediator.

The second bolded sentence does NOT appear in the Greek.

1 Timothy 2:3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,

http://bible.cc/1_timothy/2-3.htm

1 Timothy 2:5 therefore, although Jesus Christ is the sole mediator between God and man, there are many intercessors (subordinate mediators).

http://bible.cc/1_timothy/2-5.htm

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Again, the Catholic link adds to Scripture.

This next quote from the Catholic site is NOT Scripture, even though implied but preceding it with a chapter and verse. It does not even remotely suggest what the author implies.

1 Cor. 3:9 - God invites us to participate in Christ’s work because we are God’s “fellow workers” and one family in the body of Christ. God wants His children to participate. The phrase used to describe “fellow workers” is “sunergoi,” which literally means synergists, or cooperators with God in salvific matters. Does God need fellow workers? Of course not, but this shows how much He, as Father, loves His children. God wants us to work with Him.

1 Corinthians 3:5-9 5 What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each. 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. 7 So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth. 8 He who plants and he who waters are one, and each will receive his wages according to his labor. 9 For we are God's fellow workers. You are God's field, God's building.

http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/3-9.htm

Another Scripture reference without actually quoting the verse but simply rendering the author's interpretation, which again, is quite wrong.

Mark 16:20 - this is another example of how the Lord “worked with them” (”sunergountos”). God cooperates with us. Out of His eternal love, He invites our participation.

Mark 16:20 And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by accompanying signs.

http://bible.cc/mark/16-20.htm

Still another statement dishonestly portrayed as Scripture by preceding it with a reference, and again, it does NOT state what the author says....

Rom. 8:28 - God “works for good with” (the Greek is “sunergei eis agathon”) those who love Him. We work as subordinate mediators.

Romans 8:28

And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

http://bible.cc/romans/8-28.htm

And it keeps on going with this one, as with the following two verses. Again, not actual quotes from Scripture yet portrayed as being such and again, not saying what the author says they say.

2 Cor. 6:1 - “working together” (the Greek is “sunergountes”) with him, don’t accept His grace in vain. God allows us to participate in His work, not because He needs our help, but because He loves us and wants to exalt us in His Son. It is like the father who lets his child join him in carrying the groceries in the house. The father does not need help, but he invites the child to assist to raise up the child in dignity and love.

2:Corinthians 6:1 Working together with him, then, we appeal to you not to receive the grace of God in vain.

http://bible.cc/2_corinthians/6-1.htm

Heb. 12:1 - the “cloud of witnesses” (nephos marturon) that we are surrounded by is a great amphitheatre of witnesses to the earthly race, and they actively participate and cheer us (the runners) on, in our race to salvation.

Hebrews 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,

http://bible.cc/hebrews/12-1.htm

1 Peter 2:5 - we are a holy priesthood, instructed to offer spiritual sacrifices to God. We are therefore subordinate priests to the Head Priest, but we are still priests who participate in Christ’s work of redemption.

1 Peter 2:4-5 4 As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, 5 you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

http://bible.cc/1_peter/2-5.htm

There is absolutely NOTHING in any of those verses which even remotely suggests that saints intercede for us, nor that we are to pray to them. Those verses do not support that doctrine.

4,635 posted on 01/06/2013 11:00:11 AM PST by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

It’s astonishing isn’t it? You would think that after seeing so many errors a person would begin to at least realize there is a problem with the RCC teaching. Time and time again we find the “officially sanctioned” Bibles the Catholics use are not in sync with either the Greek or the Hebrew. One can only wonder at the wide eyed amazement and horror those during the Reformation who finally were able to read for themselves had. There’s no excuse for the delusion in this day and age. If Catholics continue to rely on the RCC alone for their “interpretation” there is no recourse.


4,638 posted on 01/06/2013 11:18:38 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: metmom

Yes, that sure is a papal paraphrase, and all the volume of material posted can only support believers praying for each other, which does not involve the ability to spiritual actually hear multitudes of prayers from the hearts of believers, and testifies to the destitution of support for PTDS. And what is needed and is conspicuously absent is,

1. just one example, among the multitude of prayers in the Bible, where anyone besides heathen (Jer. 44:19) prayed to or addressed anyone else in heaven but the Lord.

2. any place where exhortations, commands or instruction or descriptions on prayer directs believers to pray to departed saints or angels in heaven. (”i.e. “After this manner pray, Our mother, who art in heaven...”)..

3. any place where any insufficiency exists in Christ regarding immediacy, ability, or compassion that would require or advantage another intercessor in heaven between Christ and man, besides the Holy Spirit. (Ex. 25:22; Eph. 2:18; Heb. 2:18; 4:15,16; 7:25; 10:19-22; etc.)

4. any place where believers in Christ are not provided direct access to God in heaven, that having “boldness to enter into the holiest” (Heb. 10:19) means one may choose to meet a type of secretary rather than directly having access by one Spirit unto the Father. (Eph. 2:18)

5. where departed souls in heaven are taking prayer requests addressed to them.

6. where any communication between believers on earth and heavenly beings besides God took place apart from a personal visitation, in heaven or by angels coming to earth.

More: http://www.peacebyjesus.net/ptds.html


4,697 posted on 01/06/2013 2:27:45 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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