Posted on 12/08/2012 2:24:39 PM PST by NYer
Do Catholics worship Mary? This question is as old as the Protestant Reformation itself, and it rests, like other disputed doctrinal points, on a false premise that has been turned into a wedge: the veneration of Mary detracts from the worship of Christ.
This seeming opposition between Mary and Christ is symptomatic of the Protestant tendency, begun by Luther, to view the entirety of Christian life through a dialectical lens – a lens of conflict and division. With the Reformation the integrity of Christianity is broken and its formerly coherent elements are now set in opposition. The Gospel versus the Law. Faith versus Works. Scripture versus Tradition. Authority versus Individuality. Faith versus Reason. Christ versus Mary.
The Catholic tradition rightly sees the mutual complementarity of these elements of the faith, as they all contribute to our ultimate end – living with God now and in eternity. To choose any one of these is to choose them all.
By contrast, to assert that Catholics worship Mary along with or in place of Christ, or that praying to Mary somehow impedes Christ’s role as “the one mediator between God and men” (1 Tim 2:5) is to create a false dichotomy between the Word made flesh and the woman who gave the Word his flesh. No such opposition exists. The one Mediator entrusted his mediation to the will and womb of Mary. She does not impede his mediation – she helps to make it possible.
Within this context we see the ancillary role that the ancilla Domini plays in her divine Son’s mission. Mary’s is not a surrogate womb rented and then forgotten in God’s plan. She is physically connected to Christ and his life, and because of this she is even more deeply connected to him in the order of grace. She is, in fact, “full of grace,” as only one who is redeemed by Christ could be.
The feast of Mary’s Immaculate Conception celebrates the very first act of salvation by Christ in the world. Redemption is made possible for all by his precious blood shed on the cross. Yet Mary’s role in the Savior’s life and mission is so critical and so unique that God saw it necessary to wash her in the blood of the Lamb in advance, at the first moment of her conception.
This reality could not be more Biblical: the angel greets Mary as “full of grace” (Luke 1:28), which is literally rendered as “already graced” (kecharitōmenē). Following Mary, the Church has “pondered what sort of greeting this might be” for centuries. The dogma of the Immaculate Conception, ultimately defined in 1854, is nothing other than a rational expression of the angel’s greeting contained in Scripture: Mary is “already graced” with Christ’s redemption at the very moment of her creation.
Because God called Mary to the unique vocation of serving as the Mother of God, it is not just her soul that is graced, as is the case for us when we receive the sacraments. Mary’s entire being, body and soul, is full of grace so that she may be a worthy ark for the New Covenant. And just as the ark of the old covenant was adorned with gold to be a worthy house for God’s word, Mary is conceived without original sin to be the living and holy house for God’s Word.
Thus Mary is not only conceived immaculately, that is, without stain of sin. She also is the Immaculate Conception. Her entire being was specifically created by God with unique privilege so that she could fulfill her role in God’s plan of salvation. “Free from sin,” both original and personal, is the necessary consequence of being “full of grace.”
Protestants claim that veneration of Mary as it is practiced by Catholics is not biblical. St. Paul encouraged the Corinthians to “be imitators of me, as I am of Christ” (1 Cor 11:1). Paul is not holding himself up as the end goal, but as a means to Christ, the true end. And if a person is imitated, he is simultaneously venerated.
If we should imitate Paul, how much more should we imitate Mary, who fulfilled God’s will to the greatest degree a human being could. Throughout her life she humbled herself so that God could be exalted, and because of this, Christ has fulfilled his promise by exalting his lowly mother to the seat closest to him in God’s kingdom.
Mary is the model of humility, charity, and openness to the will of God. She allows a sword to pierce her heart for the sake of the world’s salvation. She shows us the greatness to which we are called: a life free from sin and filled with God’s grace that leads to union with God in Heaven. She is the model disciple, and therefore worthy of imitation and veneration, not as an end in herself, but as the means to the very purpose of her – and our – existence: Christ himself.
God’s lowly handmaiden would not want it any other way.
Like this, eh?
Acts 19:23-40 23 About that time there arose a great disturbance about the Way. 24 A silversmith named Demetrius, who made silver shrines of Artemis, brought in no little business for the craftsmen. 25 He called them together, along with the workmen in related trades, and said: “Men, you know we receive a good income from this business. 26 And you see and hear how this fellow Paul has convinced and led astray large numbers of people here in Ephesus and in practically the whole province of Asia. He says that man-made gods are no gods at all. 27 There is danger not only that our trade will lose its good name, but also that the temple of the great goddess Artemis will be discredited, and the goddess herself, who is worshiped throughout the province of Asia and the world, will be robbed of her divine majesty.”
28 When they heard this, they were furious and began shouting: “Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!” 29 Soon the whole city was in an uproar. The people seized Gaius and Aristarchus, Paul’s traveling companions from Macedonia, and rushed as one man into the theater. 30 Paul wanted to appear before the crowd, but the disciples would not let him. 31 Even some of the officials of the province, friends of Paul, sent him a message begging him not to venture into the theater.
32 The assembly was in confusion: Some were shouting one thing, some another. Most of the people did not even know why they were there. 33 The Jews pushed Alexander to the front, and some of the crowd shouted instructions to him. He motioned for silence in order to make a defense before the people. 34 But when they realized he was a Jew, they all shouted in unison for about two hours: “Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!”
35 The city clerk quieted the crowd and said: “Men of Ephesus, doesn’t all the world know that the city of Ephesus is the guardian of the temple of the great Artemis and of her image, which fell from heaven? 36 Therefore, since these facts are undeniable, you ought to be quiet and not do anything rash. 37 You have brought these men here, though they have neither robbed temples nor blasphemed our goddess. 38 If, then, Demetrius and his fellow craftsmen have a grievance against anybody, the courts are open and there are proconsuls. They can press charges. 39 If there is anything further you want to bring up, it must be settled in a legal assembly. 40 As it is, we are in danger of being charged with rioting because of today’s events. In that case we would not be able to account for this commotion, since there is no reason for it.” 41 After he had said this, he dismissed the assembly.
Except for this one at least.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;<<
The RCC would say “all except Mary”.
>> Scripture proceeded from Catholic teaching.<<
So it wasn’t God after all? Oy!
See James 2 verses 14-16. We are saved by both - Grace from Jesus’ alone opened the gates of heaven that had been shut, so in that sense it is Jesus alone that makes salvation possible. Our free will and works make us responsible after that for our own choices - we did not become creatures without free will and we retain the duty of moral agency in our decisions because of Jesus’ work (of redemption) on the cross. Your premise does away with free will.
Whoever said verse and message were the same other then Catholics? Most non Catholics have repeatedly made the point that it’s the passage and all of scripture that need to be taken into account. It’s Catholics who take one verse and make the “pope” make a “message” out of it.
NL: >> Scripture proceeded from Catholic teaching.<<
Well, now, CB, there's two......
2 Timothy 3:14-17 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Well, actually with that passage of Scripture, about a half dozen.....
Scripture existed before the Catholic church so the RCC cannot claim responsibility for *writing* Scripture.
It makes us wise for salvation through faith in Christ. No mention of the church there, just Scripture.
Scripture is God breathed, not Catholic church transcribed from oral tradition.
It's enough for any man.
It is "useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."
Don't need the CCC to explain or interpret.
So Israel is no longer God’s chosen people and that has been transferred to the “church”?
The TWO descriptive lineages of JESUS should be enough for some folks to understand!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogy_of_Jesus
Thanks for not judging all those folks...
It do.
So... discuss them instead and leave us CAtholics alone.
It is not our place to try to differentiate bretween sickness and sin, but to treat all sick and sinful behavior as a cry for help. As I have often heard it quoted; the Church is a hospital for sinners and a school for saints. Many on these threads display symptoms of clinical conditions. Dr. Alfred Alder (Alderian Psychology)identified a number of complexes in which the symptoms of withdrawal from social groups, aggressive fault finding in others, destructive criticism, distortion of reality, and a false sense of superiority. These complexes are often exaggerated due to the anonymity of the internet. They need our prayers, our love and our help.
We derive the word "Mass" from the Latin "misso" meaning the sending which concludes each Mass. (It is where we get the English words Mission and Missal.) In the concluding rite of the Mass we are sent to love and serve the Lord. We serve Him best when we serve those of His who need most.
Peace be with you.
Jesus didn't.
See His words above in John 6:28-29
I’ve seen you use that term several times now. Would you please describe what you mean by “self worship”? Are you saying that because those who don’t rely on the “interpretation” of the RCC they practice “self worship” or what exactly.
To: Rashputin
Please don’t ping me again. I will return the favor.
1,891 posted on Friday, December 21, 2012 12:38:42 by CynicalBear
As usual, the people who cannot understand simple English cannot keep their word, either.
No it doesn't.
See James 2 verses 14-16
I am familiar with them. Faith without works is meaningless but that does not mean the works save. It means the works are the evidence of the faith qualifying as being saving faith. It's faith that produces action, but that action does not save, but rather the quality of the faith that produces it.
Saving faith produces works. Intellectual assent does not save anyone.
BUT, the problem the Catholic church has is the rest of the body of Scripture that says salvation is by faith alone, not of works.
Would you like me to again repost ALL the verses I can find that state so?
Than perhaps some Catholic or the Catholic church can explain how Scripture teaches two contradictory things and how it decides which one to believe and how it reconciles the apparent contradiction.
Thanks. Merry Christmas. I’ve been wiped out the last few days with a nasty flu bug. Please pray for my continued recovery.
Anyone know of a good Saint to ask for prayer from too? Who is the patron Saint of the flu? Haha.
Maybe I shouldn’t ask that, since I guess all the saints are dead and can’t hear our prayers < /sarc >...might start a whole round of “that” again.
Oh?
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?
Ok, then for the record, my reply to your question is the same I gave you before. We aren't slaves to our sexual desires, "normal" or otherwise, else we are no different than animals.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.