Posted on 12/08/2012 2:24:39 PM PST by NYer
Do Catholics worship Mary? This question is as old as the Protestant Reformation itself, and it rests, like other disputed doctrinal points, on a false premise that has been turned into a wedge: the veneration of Mary detracts from the worship of Christ.
This seeming opposition between Mary and Christ is symptomatic of the Protestant tendency, begun by Luther, to view the entirety of Christian life through a dialectical lens – a lens of conflict and division. With the Reformation the integrity of Christianity is broken and its formerly coherent elements are now set in opposition. The Gospel versus the Law. Faith versus Works. Scripture versus Tradition. Authority versus Individuality. Faith versus Reason. Christ versus Mary.
The Catholic tradition rightly sees the mutual complementarity of these elements of the faith, as they all contribute to our ultimate end – living with God now and in eternity. To choose any one of these is to choose them all.
By contrast, to assert that Catholics worship Mary along with or in place of Christ, or that praying to Mary somehow impedes Christ’s role as “the one mediator between God and men” (1 Tim 2:5) is to create a false dichotomy between the Word made flesh and the woman who gave the Word his flesh. No such opposition exists. The one Mediator entrusted his mediation to the will and womb of Mary. She does not impede his mediation – she helps to make it possible.
Within this context we see the ancillary role that the ancilla Domini plays in her divine Son’s mission. Mary’s is not a surrogate womb rented and then forgotten in God’s plan. She is physically connected to Christ and his life, and because of this she is even more deeply connected to him in the order of grace. She is, in fact, “full of grace,” as only one who is redeemed by Christ could be.
The feast of Mary’s Immaculate Conception celebrates the very first act of salvation by Christ in the world. Redemption is made possible for all by his precious blood shed on the cross. Yet Mary’s role in the Savior’s life and mission is so critical and so unique that God saw it necessary to wash her in the blood of the Lamb in advance, at the first moment of her conception.
This reality could not be more Biblical: the angel greets Mary as “full of grace” (Luke 1:28), which is literally rendered as “already graced” (kecharitōmenē). Following Mary, the Church has “pondered what sort of greeting this might be” for centuries. The dogma of the Immaculate Conception, ultimately defined in 1854, is nothing other than a rational expression of the angel’s greeting contained in Scripture: Mary is “already graced” with Christ’s redemption at the very moment of her creation.
Because God called Mary to the unique vocation of serving as the Mother of God, it is not just her soul that is graced, as is the case for us when we receive the sacraments. Mary’s entire being, body and soul, is full of grace so that she may be a worthy ark for the New Covenant. And just as the ark of the old covenant was adorned with gold to be a worthy house for God’s word, Mary is conceived without original sin to be the living and holy house for God’s Word.
Thus Mary is not only conceived immaculately, that is, without stain of sin. She also is the Immaculate Conception. Her entire being was specifically created by God with unique privilege so that she could fulfill her role in God’s plan of salvation. “Free from sin,” both original and personal, is the necessary consequence of being “full of grace.”
Protestants claim that veneration of Mary as it is practiced by Catholics is not biblical. St. Paul encouraged the Corinthians to “be imitators of me, as I am of Christ” (1 Cor 11:1). Paul is not holding himself up as the end goal, but as a means to Christ, the true end. And if a person is imitated, he is simultaneously venerated.
If we should imitate Paul, how much more should we imitate Mary, who fulfilled God’s will to the greatest degree a human being could. Throughout her life she humbled herself so that God could be exalted, and because of this, Christ has fulfilled his promise by exalting his lowly mother to the seat closest to him in God’s kingdom.
Mary is the model of humility, charity, and openness to the will of God. She allows a sword to pierce her heart for the sake of the world’s salvation. She shows us the greatness to which we are called: a life free from sin and filled with God’s grace that leads to union with God in Heaven. She is the model disciple, and therefore worthy of imitation and veneration, not as an end in herself, but as the means to the very purpose of her – and our – existence: Christ himself.
God’s lowly handmaiden would not want it any other way.
No there isn't..they just prove Gods call on Luther when they slander him
Luk 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you [from their company], and shall reproach [you], and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward [is] great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.
You too sister.. they bless us every time they mock us..Praise the Lord !
Jhn 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before [it hated] you.
Dialog and communication really matter to me in a very deep way. I don't see any reason why any but the fiercest opponents could not work together to explore their differences. In Magister Ludi Hesse's protagonist has a protracted philosophical disagreement with a friend. There is no problem with his saying something along the lines of, "That's a very good point, and I'll have to think about it for a couple of days."
I can imagine in our conversations here -- if they were real conversations -- getting to a point where if Non-Catholic A hit a block, Catholic B would be willing and able to say, "If I understand your position, this is where you would say X in response to my point," And A might say, "Yes, that's right. So let me have said it. Now what do YOU say?" Or he might say, "Yes, something like that, but I THINK I"d rather say blah-blah. So now what do you say?"
THAT's my idea of a good and productive conversation. This juvenile resort to purported singers and barbaric counting coup is a poor witness to adulthood, much less to Xtianity, IMHO.
But it may just be true that I'm being called away from adversarial apologetics these days and to another kind of witness.
And the scriptural support for the communion of saints? For them hearing prayers??
Gee aren't Catholics doing ground hog day every Sunday?
You noticed the crickets on that one too ey?
Wow since when ?? Thats not right..
No answer huh?
Not me, I was raised in that mess..
"See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits[a] of the world, and NOT ACCORDING to CHRIST.Colossians 2:8
Actual progress in mutual understanding might have taken place.
"Trust in the LORD with all your heart and LEAN NOT on your OWN UNDERSTANDING; in ALL your ways acknowledge HIM, and HE will make your paths straight." Prov 3:5,6
Worldly secular advice only works with catholics. It doesn't work with CHRISTIANS- they HEAR and OBEY GOD - His WORD.
And THAT is the difference!
Did forget, thanks:)
Amen
That’s the kind of thing I mean.
Another dodge.
If you can’t say what is or isn’t an idol, why should anyone take you seriously when you charge others with idolatry?
It was a simple question. Do you agree or not?
Those who are "called to be saints" practically (1Cor. 1:2; Rm. 1:7 - though “to be” is not in the Greek), are referred to as saints positionally. Both those who were "among them that are perfect," (1Cor. 2:6) - who had attained practical Christian perfection - and those (like me) who were yet spiritually immature, are termed saints.
For that all believers were referred as saints is incontrovertible as seen by the universality of its consistent use as synonymous with believer.
"And it came to pass, as Peter passed throughout all quarters, he came down also to the saints which dwelt at Lydda. " (Acts 9:32)
"Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia [the district or province of which Corinth was the capital, as well as the whole of Greece]:" (2 Corinthians 1:1)
"All the saints salute you. " (2 Corinthians 13:13)
"Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; " (Ephesians 2:19)
"Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. " (Jude 3)
For rather than "saints" referring to a select class of perfected believers, they are to be perfected thru the working of the Body of Christ:
"For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: " (Ephesians 4:12)
"Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. " (1 Corinthians 1:8) And whom they would be with at death or his return, whichever came first. ( 2Cor. 5:8; Phil. 1:23; 1Cor. 15:52; 1Thes. 4:7)
The Corinthians were addressed as saints and "called [selected, appointed, invited] saints," (1Cor. 1:2) as were the saints in Rome (Rm. 1:7), for indeed they were saints, having been washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Corinthians 6:11)
But this sanctified status by imputed righteousness called them to live out practically what they were positionally, just as being seated in heavenly places (Eph. 2:6) called them to live accordingly: "If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. " (Colossians 3:1) And "If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. " (Galatians 5:25)
Now to do so better.
>>>You cannot put Holy Scripture in the dock and ask: “Is CB correct or the Church?
>>Oh really?
Yes, really. If you can do this; make a recording of it and post it here.
Any teaching takes into account the changed culture. Now we understand astronomy and medicine differently than 2,000 years ago, so the Church needs to explain the Catholic view in the light of these discoveries. On the subject of the veneration of saints, this is what changed: some people died for their faith thus proving it, while others denied Christ. So it became clear that not everyone who goes in church with you and professes a belief in words should be properly called a saint. So the word "saint" came to denote a martyr, and after than any other person whose sanctity cannot be doubted due to the virtue of his life. Of course only the totality of one's life provides such basis for admiration, and so necessarily and logically, veneration of saints who fell asleep in the Lord developed.
Mind you, it was not top-down; plain folks wanted to venerate certain people as saints. The Church recognized this desire as a form of worshiping Christ, the Font of all holiness, and shaped it up properly.
Bless you.
Yes, isn't that the interesting part? He gives the impulse to pray; he prays in us; he answers the prayer he makes in us. And, it seems, high on his list of gifts is the gift of desiring him more. So when we pray with the Psalmist that we thirst for him we make that prayer with gratitude.
Gratitude is also his gift.
These are well-known facts about an historical figure who started a sect and accused His Holiness of being anti-Christ. He is fair game, -- he is a jerk.
Yes, -- be like birds in the field "they neither sow, nor do they reap, nor gather into barns: and your heavenly Father feedeth them" (Matthew 6:26). That is, indeed the teaching of the New Testament, radically opposed to the Pharisaic concept of wealth as a blessing.
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