Posted on 12/08/2012 2:24:39 PM PST by NYer
Do Catholics worship Mary? This question is as old as the Protestant Reformation itself, and it rests, like other disputed doctrinal points, on a false premise that has been turned into a wedge: the veneration of Mary detracts from the worship of Christ.
This seeming opposition between Mary and Christ is symptomatic of the Protestant tendency, begun by Luther, to view the entirety of Christian life through a dialectical lens – a lens of conflict and division. With the Reformation the integrity of Christianity is broken and its formerly coherent elements are now set in opposition. The Gospel versus the Law. Faith versus Works. Scripture versus Tradition. Authority versus Individuality. Faith versus Reason. Christ versus Mary.
The Catholic tradition rightly sees the mutual complementarity of these elements of the faith, as they all contribute to our ultimate end – living with God now and in eternity. To choose any one of these is to choose them all.
By contrast, to assert that Catholics worship Mary along with or in place of Christ, or that praying to Mary somehow impedes Christ’s role as “the one mediator between God and men” (1 Tim 2:5) is to create a false dichotomy between the Word made flesh and the woman who gave the Word his flesh. No such opposition exists. The one Mediator entrusted his mediation to the will and womb of Mary. She does not impede his mediation – she helps to make it possible.
Within this context we see the ancillary role that the ancilla Domini plays in her divine Son’s mission. Mary’s is not a surrogate womb rented and then forgotten in God’s plan. She is physically connected to Christ and his life, and because of this she is even more deeply connected to him in the order of grace. She is, in fact, “full of grace,” as only one who is redeemed by Christ could be.
The feast of Mary’s Immaculate Conception celebrates the very first act of salvation by Christ in the world. Redemption is made possible for all by his precious blood shed on the cross. Yet Mary’s role in the Savior’s life and mission is so critical and so unique that God saw it necessary to wash her in the blood of the Lamb in advance, at the first moment of her conception.
This reality could not be more Biblical: the angel greets Mary as “full of grace” (Luke 1:28), which is literally rendered as “already graced” (kecharitōmenē). Following Mary, the Church has “pondered what sort of greeting this might be” for centuries. The dogma of the Immaculate Conception, ultimately defined in 1854, is nothing other than a rational expression of the angel’s greeting contained in Scripture: Mary is “already graced” with Christ’s redemption at the very moment of her creation.
Because God called Mary to the unique vocation of serving as the Mother of God, it is not just her soul that is graced, as is the case for us when we receive the sacraments. Mary’s entire being, body and soul, is full of grace so that she may be a worthy ark for the New Covenant. And just as the ark of the old covenant was adorned with gold to be a worthy house for God’s word, Mary is conceived without original sin to be the living and holy house for God’s Word.
Thus Mary is not only conceived immaculately, that is, without stain of sin. She also is the Immaculate Conception. Her entire being was specifically created by God with unique privilege so that she could fulfill her role in God’s plan of salvation. “Free from sin,” both original and personal, is the necessary consequence of being “full of grace.”
Protestants claim that veneration of Mary as it is practiced by Catholics is not biblical. St. Paul encouraged the Corinthians to “be imitators of me, as I am of Christ” (1 Cor 11:1). Paul is not holding himself up as the end goal, but as a means to Christ, the true end. And if a person is imitated, he is simultaneously venerated.
If we should imitate Paul, how much more should we imitate Mary, who fulfilled God’s will to the greatest degree a human being could. Throughout her life she humbled herself so that God could be exalted, and because of this, Christ has fulfilled his promise by exalting his lowly mother to the seat closest to him in God’s kingdom.
Mary is the model of humility, charity, and openness to the will of God. She allows a sword to pierce her heart for the sake of the world’s salvation. She shows us the greatness to which we are called: a life free from sin and filled with God’s grace that leads to union with God in Heaven. She is the model disciple, and therefore worthy of imitation and veneration, not as an end in herself, but as the means to the very purpose of her – and our – existence: Christ himself.
God’s lowly handmaiden would not want it any other way.
Are there no depths to which you will not go in your attempt at assassinating Luther's character?
Do you know what the word *shame* means?
Some of it would do you some good.
Personal attacks say much more about you than about me.
I can seem so only if one is ignorant of what the Communion of Saints is comprised of.
It is necessary to know what something is before criticizing the logic of its reference.
Then you missed it. You could review the posts of the poster I replied to or click back through this part of the thread.
Your welcome to your personal interpretation. If you’d like a link to scripture and exegesis that contradicts you, I’ll be happy to provide.
Well, there's quite a leap.
It can seem so only if one is ignorant of what the Communion of Saints is comprised of.
It is necessary to know what something is before criticizing the logic of its reference.
It may or may not have been foolish, but hopeful? My intent was to show the futility of participation in Religion Forum, or what I call St. Groundhog's Day. The clock flips, "I Got You Babe" plays in the background, and the same old arguments are recycled by the same people. The difference is that Bill Murray could eventually work his way out of the problem.
Peace and Blessings
Yep, read the whole thing. Lot’s of parsing words there. In most every point he made he had to admit that the RCC at least was guilty of that point either to a certain degree or was in the past or is in the present but not in the past. I’ll stick with my viewpoint that it’s a cult.
>>- According to you. You’re the sole authority for Christ and what the Apostles taught and what scripture means and is interpreted.<<
Nope, once again scripture interprets scripture. It’s all there if one is interested in learning truth outside the influence of some organization.
>>Cult followers are quite logically following God’s word by following their leader. Their view is his view is God’s view.<<
That would certainly describe Catholics following the RCC wouldn’t it.
Nope, it’s comparing what Catholics do to what is described as idolatry in scripture. I can watch some Bishop or Priest of the Pope burning incense in front of some statue and read scripture to get a perspective.
Deut 4:16 Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female (KJV)
Hosea 11:2 As they called them, so they went from them: they sacrificed unto Baalim, and burned incense to graven images. (KJV)
But I’m sure I will hear something like this back from Catholics.
Jer 44:16 As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the LORD, we will not hearken unto thee. 17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes
LOL!
He shoots, he SCORES!
E.g., is this an idol?:
Or this:
These are both graven images of males. If they are not idols, why not?
I'm betting when it does, it miraculously agrees with you. :)
You cannot put Holy Scripture in the dock and ask: "Is CB correct or the Church?
It's all you.
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Jesus was the only human born without sin and who never sinned because He had no earthly father.
Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
If they want mine; all they have to do is a little research of my posts.
It has been revealed before.
As a kayaker, you’ve no doubt been upside down a number of times in the water.
Turn you over here and you got the Number!!!
It is patently false. The Intention of the Mass spoken by the priest is not the intention or intent of the priest. As one who grew up diagramming sentences the difference is not subtle. The two types of intentions are differentiated by their predicate nouns; priest and mass. That is pretty clear to me.
Peace be with you.
You've missed my point: "I've seen."
Granted that someone CALLED the RCC a cult, but, like the dog whose tail was called a leg; doesn't mean he had 5 of them.
Then just why did you guys compile it?
Interesting how you quote scripture and neglect parts. Here, I’ll give you parts Catholics seem to like to overlook. I’ll highlight them right from the scripture you quoted.
[29] And seek not you what you shall eat, or what you shall drink: and be not lifted up on high. [30] For all these things do the nations of the world seek. But your Father knoweth that you have need of these things. [31] But seek ye first the kingdom of God and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you. [32] Fear not, little flock, for it hath pleased your Father to give you a kingdom. [33] Sell what you possess and give alms. Make to yourselves bags which grow not old, a treasure in heaven which faileth not: where no thief approacheth, nor moth corrupteth. [34] For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.(Luke 12)all these things shall be added unto you. Never promised the material reward you say? Do you accept only parts of scripture but deny the promise of “all these things shall be added unto you”? Please don’t try to deceive me hoping I won’t actually read the scripture.
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