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To: DaveMSmith; boatbums
My question is for those who reject religion - why is the Trinity of persons held as gospel? The Apostles did not understand it that way.

Bb and Dave -- you are both not correct in your statements

DaveM --> 1. No one here is rejecting religion. We have disputes over religious beliefs. If anyone "rejected religion" they'd dismiss these arguments over philosphy as senseless
2. Your statement "The Apostles did not understand it that way" is incorrect because the Apostles never gave a direct, council edict type statement on the Trinity, YET, as bb points out it is indicated in scripture

BB -- you are partially correct and partially incorrect on "Well, from where do you think Christians came up with it? Unlike some dogmas of the church," --

The FACT is that the Apostles baptised "In the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" -- in the "name" of 3.

The FACT is that the Apostles believed in the tenets of Judaism and saw God as ONE

We can say as a definite that they believed there was some connection between Jesus, God the Father and The Holy Spirit

Perhaps they didn't express it in as detailed a language as in the Athanasian Creed, but they definitely did not believe that:

1. Jesus was not God
2. Jesus was exactly the same as the Father
3. Jesus was exactly the same as the Holy Spirit
4. The Father was exactly the same as the Holy Spirit

They may not have been able to expound on it, but it was clear to them that point 1 was false -- no one else could cure in His own name

It was clear to them that Jesus spoke to the FAther on the Cross and the Father spoke -- a separation that they perhaps couldn't understand

It was clear to them that Jesus said "I will send another"

Net-net, they believed in the Trinity, not in unitarianism/swedenborgianism.

371 posted on 12/05/2012 1:04:46 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Cronos
True Christian Religion (Dick) n. 175

175. The Apostolic Church knew nothing of a trinity of Persons, or of three Persons from eternity, as is evident from the creed of that Church, called the Apostles' Creed, where it is said:

"I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary; and in the Holy Ghost."

Here no mention is made of any Son from eternity, but of a Son conceived by the Holy Ghost, and born of the Virgin Mary; for those who framed that creed knew from the Apostles

that Jesus Christ was the true God, 1 John v. 20;

that in Him dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily, Coloss. ii. 9;

that the Apostles preached faith in Him, Acts xx. 21; and that He had all power in heaven and in earth, Matt. xxviii. 18.

381 posted on 12/05/2012 4:43:08 AM PST by DaveMSmith (Evil Comes from Falsity, So Share the Truth)
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To: Cronos
Net-net, they believed in the Trinity, not in unitarianism/swedenborgianism/MORMONism!
384 posted on 12/05/2012 5:07:40 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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