My collar doesn't say "Bad to the bone" for NOTHIN'; you know!
Posted on 11/10/2012 7:59:09 AM PST by Colofornian
MessageToEagle.com - Normally, as a matter of personal preference I don’t get into politics, but when we have a presidential campaign that begins to cross over into the strange twilight zone of religious weirdness that centers on the one person who’s going to control the most powerful government and army on the face of the earth, well, it brings up some unusual scenarios to wonder about.
It is being reported in the media today that former presidential candidate Mitt Romney only wrote a victory speech for Election Day; presumably a harried, last minute scramble to revise his speech was being suggested as the reason behind the Romney-Ryan campaigns’ sluggish reluctance to concede their party’s unthinkable defeat.
Electoral Votes:
Barack Obama: 303 Mitt Romney: 206
Curiously, one has to wonder whether it was Romney’s obsession with polls and tracking data that lead to this overextension of hubris; his unshakable faith that he would be the next president of the United States—or could it have been Romney’s Mormon faith itself that lead him to believe victory was all but assured by some divine mandate?
Ascending to the office of the presidency has always been a coveted part of the mission of the Mormon Church, which began with its founder Joseph Smith, who as a young man experienced a close encounter with a being from another planet named Moroni, who descended from the heavens and instructed Smith to found a new religion (as seen on History Channel’s Ancient Aliens, S3E01)—today, in Ufology, such a happenstance would likely be classified as a contactee CE5 level event.
“I saw a pillar of light . . . which descended gradually until it fell upon me” – Joseph Smith.
In 1844 Joseph Smith, an apparent UFO contactee and the founder of the Mormon Church, brazenly launched his own political campaign for President of the United States. His stated goal was to overthrow the U.S. Constitution, and bring about a Mormon theocracy to the Nation.
Smith’s candidacy was always long shot, but that didn’t stop him from rallying his people to help clinch his destiny to be an independent commander in chief of the “army of God”.
Smith prophesied that if the U.S. Congress did not bow to his demands that “they shall be broken up as a government and God shall damn them.” He foresaw the emergence of “the one Mighty and Strong”—a leader who would “set in order the house of God”.
Smith’s call for a “theodemocracy where God and his people hold the power to conduct the affairs of men in righteous matters” evidently did not sit well with the majority of voters in the United States, and brought down a lot of bad press and hostility upon the Mormons. Smith’s presidential campaign was cut short while he was sitting in jail facing charges of treason and inciting a riot; an angry mob broke into the jailhouse and brought him to justice by shooting him to death.
Out of this early chapter of U.S. history developed what has became known in the Mormon Church as the “White Horse Prophecy”—a controversial prediction that someday a great Mormon leader, who, at a time when the U.S. Constitution “hangs like a thread as fine as a silk fiber”, would be elected President.
I know a little bit about Mormonism and their beliefs. I grew up and lived in Salt Lake City most all my life, I sat through many days of LDS seminary at public schools, and I also attended a private Mormon school as a teenager.
My family has roots in the Mormon pioneer heritage and early history. My ancestors, the Neff’s, came to the Salt Lake Valley in 1847, from Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. My great-great-great-grandfather John Neff, Sr. settled Neff’s canyon in East Millcreek, Utah. He was also a close friend of Brigham Young and accompanied him into Northern Utah to proselyte amongst the Native Americans there. His daughter, Mary Ann Neff, married the notorious Mormon gunslinger and Utah folkhero Orrin Porter Rockwell.
Orrin Porter Rockwell was one scary-looking son of a bitch . . .
Rockwell served as a loyal henchman to Church founders Joseph Smith Jr. and Brigham Young—and was affectionately nick-named ‘Ol’ Port’ the ‘Destroying Angel of Mormondom’.
In his despicable and sordid history, Ol’ Port was intimately connected to political assassinations, revenge-killings, and gruesome Indian massacres. He’s praised for having avenged the Prophet Joseph Smith’s murder by shooting one of the conspirators with his musket while riding astride a horse.
There have been a few failed attempts in various movies and books to elevate the psychopath to the status of a gritty American hero of the old west —fortunately, none of them have really stuck.
A few of the many curious tenants of Mormonism I heard growing up in Salt Lake City were as follows . . .
*Cain, the killer of his brother Abel, is alive and wanders the earth, wearing no clothing but being covered by hair, and that LDS Church apostle David W. Patten encountered him once; and that reported sightings of Bigfoot can be explained by this story.
*Blacks were neutral in the War in Heaven, and that is why they were not allowed to hold the Mormon priesthood before 1978.
*Albert Einstein supposedly once said that LDS Church apostle James E. Talmage was the smartest man he had ever met.
*The Second Coming was imminent, and when I was age 25 I would be living in the “Last Days” (I’m in my 40’s now).
And here’s where Mitt Romney’s presidential candidacy enters the picture—
I remember my 7th grade LDS seminary teacher sermonizing about the “signs” of the ‘Last Days’.
One of his favorite ‘signs’ that he liked to talk about was that a great Mormon leader would be elected President of the United States, and this would be a major indication that the Last Days were imminent, e.g. the White Horse Prophecy.
Some say that the White Horse Prophecy was written by Joseph Smith himself, while others dispute that claim. According to the Salt Lake City Tribune:
The disputed prophecy was recorded in a diary entry of a Mormon who had heard the tale from two men who were with Joseph Smith in Nauvoo, Ill. when he supposedly declared the prophecy. “You will see the Constitution of the United States almost destroyed,” the diary entry quotes Smith as saying. “It will hang like a thread as fine as a silk fiber.”
Not only will the Mormons save the Constitution, under the prediction, but the prophecy goes further, insinuating that Mormons will control the government.
“Power will be given to the White Horse to rebuke the nations afar off, and you obey it, for the laws go forth from Zion,” the prophecy says.
Publicly, the Mormon Church doesn’t officially endorse the ‘White Horse Prophecy’ as doctrine, and will deny anything to do with it (just as Romney has whenever it’s been brought up)—however, there’s a telling piece of Mormon dogma that people may find disturbing. It was set in place by Joseph Smith himself, and is referred to as “lying for the Lord.”
As an act of self preservation or to protect the Mormon Church, it is doctrinally permissive to lie about your beliefs or intentions. In other words the ends justify the means. Smith did it with regard to his polygamous lifestyle. Brigham Young did it when he claimed that only Paiute Indians were responsible for the Mountain Meadows Massacre.
Over and over again, Mitt Romney marginalized his devout Mormon background, and downplayed its significance throughout his entire campaign. But in the 1970’s the ‘Cougar Club’ at Brigham Young University declared their admiration of Mitt and predicted that he’d be the president of the United States one day. According to an article on Salon.com:
…the Cougar Club — the all male, all white social club at Brigham Young University in Salt Lake City (blacks were excluded from full membership in the Mormon church until 1978) — was humming with talk that its president, Mitt Romney, would become the first Mormon president of the United States. “If not Mitt, then who?” was the ubiquitous slogan within the elite organization. The pious world of BYU was expected to spawn the man who would lead the Mormons into the White House and fulfill the prophecies of the church’s founder, Joseph Smith Jr., which Romney has avidly sought to realize.
With all this in mind, it’s hard not to look back and wonder . . .
Could Mitt Romney have been intending to run the United States as a Mormon theocratic state, as fortold by his Church’s prophet Joseph Smith?
Would a President Romney have executed the will of the people of the United States, and answered to the people—or would he only answer to God via the hierarchy of the Mormon Church?
What if a “revelation” or “vision” was received by the current President of the LDS Church (or Prophet), and passed on to ‘President Romney’ as a directive from God?–would Romney have executed that directive, even if it had gone against the will of the U.S. people, or the World?
Thankfully, this is probably one mystery we’ll never know the answer to . . .
Written by Dustin Naef - MessageToEagle.com Contributor
About the author: Dustin Naef has been a student of ancient mysteries and the paranormal for as long as he can remember. He has worked in screenwriting, graphic design and illustration, produced and designed video best-selling games, and is currently involved in the production of a film documentary and book about the mysteries surrounding Mount Shasta, California.
If you wish to follow Dustin Naef: Dustin's website: http://www.dustinnaef.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dustinnaef.mountshasta https://www.facebook.com/MountShastaFilm
Your mind is closed and you are oh so sure you know what you’re talking about. I used to be just like you.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
“””””You are right. Your Jesus is different from mine. “”””
What is it about Joseph Smith’s version of Christ do you like over what is written in the Bible?
One must never forget beauty is in the eyes of the beholder..:O) they are lovely. But for 2 month during the breeding season the males can be smelled from 20 feet away...they urinate on their bellys and the females find that very attractive...blaak...after breeding season they don’t smell anymore cause shearing comes right after that..PU and I am very carefull in going into the pasture for any reason, find the billy first and decide if I have time to jump the fence....The last kidding season (march) before hubby passed away we had 20 kids born plus 2 had twins...put us up to 80. lots of fun...
One day I decided to see how they would react if I brough the dog into the barn...about 1/2 of the flock was laying around chewing their cud...Only took 2 steps into the area, dog didn’t bark and I had her close to my side....everyone one the young ones and my 1 ewe and the does took off out of the barn as fast as they could...my 3 largest males, 1 my huge breeder stood their ground. The would not turn their back on a predator. I stood there for a couple of minutes and then left....interesting reaction that the biggest males just starred at the dog and didn’t move a muscle just waiting to see what the dog was going to do...
ALL: If you look at Saundra's 10-point list about the alleged "Mormon Jesus" on posts #416/#417, it sounds pretty "orthodox." Bottom line, tho, when you review the new charts I'll be posting, including one below, you can see that...
There's some things we actually agree with Lds leaders in their general premises;
While at the same time, Mormonism has distorted the one True Jesus and twisted Him into an entirely different Being!
So, I take the above statement as one where Saundra is attempting to say to AMPU -- you're petty, so your "Jesus" must be petty, too.
But she -- and MILLIONS of Mormons like her -- indicate they are clueless as to why they've embraced "another" Jesus altogether...just as the apostle Paul said there was "another" Jesus (2 Cor. 11:3-4).
If a 'counterfeit' person was using your name online -- and has some attributes similar to you -- does it make it 'you' if it's 'close enough?'
| Mormon Leader General Premises about 'Jesus' we actually agree with! | Summary or Scriptural Summary |
| LDS "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie essentially answered the question before the development of the Internet world: "A false Christ is NOT a person. It is a false system of worship, a false church, a false cult that says, 'Lo, here is salvation, here is the doctrine of Christ. Come and believe thus and so, and ye shall be saved.' It is any concept or philosophy that says that redemption, salvation, sanctification, justification, and all of the promised rewards can be gained in any way except that set forth by the [LDS] apostles and prophets." (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, The Millennial Messiah: The Second Coming of the Son of Man, p. 48) | You know, there actually are times we agree with the general premises (but not specific applications) of Mormon leaders like Bruce McConkie! And, even though McConkie was referencing all those outside of Mormonism --ya gotta understand that the Lds church teaches that their church is "the only true and living church on the face of the earth" (Lds Doctrines & Covenants 1:30-- what McConkie says does apply to false systems, false churches, and false cults! |
| Therefore, citing Mormon leaders above & below: How important is it that people don't "misunderstand" who Jesus is? | The New Testament discusses 'another Jesus' (2 Corinthians 11:3-4)...2 Cor. 11:4 -- "For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached..." |
| Per this BYU prof, 'tis very important we don't 'know' another Jesus! "There is NO SALVATION in false doctrine, NO REDEEMING POWER IN MISUNDERSTANDING ABOUT JESUS CHRIST." (BYU associate professor W. Jeffrey Marsh, "Doctrine of Christ restored to the world," Church News, Jan. 3, 2004, p. 6) | 23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. (Jesus, Matthew 24:23-24) |
| Per Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie: * "There is no such thing as gaining salvation from a false god, or by conforming to a false plan of salvation, or through membership in a false church." (Lds Official magazine Ensign (Conference edition), "The Caravan Moves On," Nov.1984, p. 83) *"There is no salvation in believing any false doctrine, particularly a false or unwise view about the Godhead or any of its members. Eternal life is reserved for those who know God and the One whom he sent to work out the infinite and eternal atonement." ("Our Relationship with the Lord," in Fireside and Devotional Speeches, 1981-82 (Provo: BYU Press, 1982), p. 97 -- this quote republished in official Lds curricula publication in 1983, 1986, Come unto Christ: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, 1984/1988, p. 45) * "True and saving worship is found ONLY among those who know the truth about God and the Godhead, and who undertand the true relationship men should have with each member of that Eternal Presidency." ("Our Relationship with the Lord," in Fireside and Devotional Speeches, 1981-82 (Provo: BYU Press, 1982), p. 97 -- this quote republished in official Lds curricula publication in 1983, 1986, Come unto Christ: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, 1984/1988, p. 45) |
"And this is life eternal, that they might know knee THE ONLY TRUE God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent." (Jesus, John 17:3) [Even Lds "Doctrines & Covenants has 'stolen' a similar saying:] "This is eternal lives--to know THE ONLY wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent..." (D&C 132:24) |
Bottom line to above: Mormons might have you believe that embracing "any ole' Jesus" will do...
But you know what?
...The five quotes above -- four from an Lds "apostle" who had the temerity to write a book called "Mormon Doctrine"...
...+ a BYU prof...
...All don't agree with such an assumption...
ALL: If you look at Saundra's 10-point list about the alleged "Mormon Jesus" on posts #416/#417, it sounds pretty "orthodox." Bottom line, tho, when you review these new charts I'm be posting, including a second one below, you can see that...
There's some things we actually agree with Lds leaders in their general premises;
While at the same time, Mormonism has distorted the one True Jesus and twisted Him into an entirely different Being! (And just like a Nazi twisted "cross" is no cross at all, a twisted "Jesus" is no genuine Jesus at all!)
| Lds Source | Lds Leaders Say: 'Different Christ' | Bible indicates: 'Different Christ' |
| Lds 'prophet' Gordon B. Hinckley: | Lds "prophet" Gordon B. Hinckley: “There are those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.” (LDS Church News, June 20, 1998) Hinckley again: As a Church we have critics, many of them. They say we do not believe in the traditional Christ of Christianity. There is some substance to what they say. Our faith, our knowledge is not based on ancient tradition, the creeds which came of a finite understanding and out of the almost infinite discussions of men trying to arrive at a definition of the risen Christ. Our faith, our knowledge comes of the witness of a prophet in this dispensation who saw before him the great God of the universe and His Beloved Son, the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ. ("We Look to Christ", from April 2002 General Conference.) |
"The FACT IS, we do NOT depend on the Bible or on traditional biblical interpretations for our theology." (BYU professor Robert L. Millet, Review of Books on the Book of Mormon, 6:1, p. 198). Did you notice the "WE" of Millet's statement? -- and that there wasn't a storm or even a peep of protest from either Mormon leaders or Mormon grassroots objecting to this Millet statement...and I would guestimate that lack of protest encompasses ALL FReeper Mormons! In stark contrast, the traditional Christ within Christianity is... ...uniquely THE ONLY begotten Son from eternity past, not one of millions of God's pre-existent "sons"; He is uniquely Savior, not one of millions of saviors per Mormondom; He is uniquely Creator and divine and self-existent from eternity past, not one of MILLIONS of men who are somehow likewise "self-existent" from eternity past; His blood is uniquely powerful beyond men's commandment-keeping -- lest the promise Jesus made to the thief on the cross become a false prophecy; His blood is potent enough to cover ALL sins, unlike the Mormon Jesus who leaves men to "make up" for anemic blood via their own "blood atonement." He absorbed God's wrath vs. the Book of Mormon violent Jesus who took out His wrath upon thousands of residents in alleged 16 Book of Mormon cities! The violent Mormon Jesus sunk, entombed, and otherwise destroyed perhaps up to 90,000 upon His death on the Mormon cross! The Bible knows no such horrific crucifixion aftermath fairy tales... |
| Lds official publication Ensign; BYU Press; Lds curricula - Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide | “It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons.” – LDS publication, Ensign Magazine, May 1977, p. 26; "True and saving worship is found ONLY among those who know the truth about God and the Godhead, and who understand the true relationship men should have with each member of that Eternal Presidency." ("Our Relationship with the Lord," in Fireside and Devotional Speeches, 1981-82 (Provo: BYU Press, 1982), p. 97 -- this quote republished in official Lds curricula publication in 1983, 1986, Come unto Christ: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, 1984/1988, p. 45) | (See comparison charts to follow); Christians worship a Christ who can receive direct prayer (Acts 7:59; Mormons even militate vs. their own "scripture" on this -- see 3 Nephi 19:18, 24-26) |
| Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie | "And virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pg.269). | The Christ of Christianity is 'mythical' per an Lds "apostle"? And Mormons imagine that they haven't somehow wielded a direct attack upon Christians worldwide? May I remind Mormons that Lds continued to publish McConkie's "Mormon Doctrine" book? (The Mormon church got ahold of the direct copyright, acquiring it from Bookcraft, and then publishing it under its direct ownership umbrella -- Deseret Book Publishing -- in 1993) McConkie's book was published/republished under 7, count 'em 7, Mormon "prophets" (McKay, Lee, Kimball, Benson, Hunter, Hinckley, Monson). Only McKay conveyed strongly that alterations needs to be forthcoming after the initial edition, and revisions were made...but not enough to keep from embarrassing the Mormon faithful ever since! |
Summary bottom-line:
Mormon official publications say they worship a different Christ...
...the Mormon "prophet" said they speak about, believe and acknowledge a different Christ...
...Most Christians say they worship, speak of and trust another Jesus...
...So. We would seem to be on the same page...so why the few stragglers who are out of harmony???
Wise decision!
Anyway, here is what my Church believes about Jesus Christ:
1. Jesus created this earth.
2. Jesus created worlds without number.
3. Jesus was the firstborn spirit of our Father in Heaven.
4. Jesus was a God before He was born on this earth.
5. Jesus was the one who established the covenant with Abraham.
6. Jesus was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
7. Jesus appeared to Moses in the burning bush.
8. Jesus helped the children of Israel escape from Egypt and parted the Red Sea.
9. Jesus gave the Ten Commandments to Moses.
10. Jesus is Jehovah, the God of the Old Testament.
And what do you believe about Jesus? Jesus is my Savior.
ALL: Here Saundra is giving us an open invite to tell her what we believe about Jesus, and I've gone a step further in elaborating what is so different about the Mormon "Jesus" in the chart below...and the one that follows:
To summarize the chart briefly:
The traditional Christ within Christianity is...
...uniquely THE ONLY begotten Son from eternity past, not one of millions of God's pre-existent "sons";
He is uniquely Savior, not one of millions of saviors per Mormondom;
He is uniquely Creator and divine and self-existent from eternity past, not one of MILLIONS of men who are somehow likewise "self-existent" from eternity past;
His blood is uniquely powerful beyond men's commandment-keeping -- lest the promise Jesus made to the thief on the cross become a false prophecy;
His blood is potent enough to cover ALL sins, unlike the Mormon Jesus who leaves men to "make up" for anemic blood via their own "blood atonement."
He absorbed God's wrath vs. the Book of Mormon violent Jesus who took out His wrath upon thousands of residents in alleged 16 Book of Mormon cities! The violent Mormon Jesus sunk, entombed, and otherwise destroyed perhaps up to 90,000 upon His death on the Mormon cross! The Bible knows no such horrific crucifixion aftermath fairy tales...
Note: For documentation as to showing "proof" for these answers below, see the next (last) chart.
| Questions Distinguishing 'Mormon' Jesus from Jesus of Bible | Mormon 'Jesus'? | Based upon what Lds 'scripture' | Jesus of Bible? | Relevant Scriptures |
| 1. Was Jesus self-existent from all eternity past? | Lds say NO -- unless Lds want to claim that men also are 'self-existent' from eternity past: "Man was also in the beginning with God." (D&C 93:29); yet they de-emphasize their own "scripture" -- Alma 13:9 in the Book of Mormon, where it reads how Jesus was "the only begotten without beginning of days" | D&C 93:29 vs. Alma 13:9. Note: In Joseph Smith's "Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith," he also elaborated upon a "council of gods" who were before Heavenly Father; and how Heavenly Father himself had a "father" and grandfather. | YES | John 8:58; John 1:1,18; Micah 5:2; Ex. 3:14 |
| 2. Is the title 'firstborn' as applied to Christ NOT linked to being the "elder brother" of you and me as pre-earth spirits, as Mormons interpret it, but rather to the Son of God being the pre-eminent heir and creator of all things? |
NO |
D&C 93:21 -- introduced 1833...not found in Book of Mormon | NO | Col. 1:15-18; Eph. 6:12; Ps. 80:27 |
| 3. Can the 'Creator' be One who was 'created' (as a 'creature')? | YES | "And virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pg.269). | NO | Col. 1:16 |
| 4. Was Jesus as Son of God perfect from eternity past? | NO | "Even Christ himself was NOT perfect at first; he received not a fulness at first, but he received grace for grace, and he continued to receive more and more until he received a fulness." (Lds 6th "prophet" Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, 1986, p. 68); * "...we have a correct idea of the character of the Son from the writings of the apostles, so far as they learned it. But while he was tabernacling in the flesh, he was more or less contaminated with fallen nature." (Brigham Young, JoD vol. 6, p. 95) | YES | 2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Pet. 2:22 |
| 5. Was Jesus always 'divine' from eternity past? | NO | * "Jesus BECAME a God and reached His great state of understanding through consistent effort and continuous obedience to all the Gospel truths and universal laws." (p. 51 Milton Hunter, The Gospel Through the Ages); * "Christ ATTAINED Godhood while yet in pre-existence..." (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1966, p. 323) | YES | John 17:5; Heb. 1:8 |
| 6. Was Jesus born "at" Bethlehem? | NO (Jerusalem) | Alma 7:10, Book of Mormon | YES | Micah 5:2 prophesy; Matt. 2:1; Luke 2:4,15; John 7:42 |
| 7. Was one of the purposes that Christ came to earth was so that He, Himself could become a "saved being?" | YES | "Christ is a saved being” (Lds "apostle" McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p 257); * "Christ's rise to the throne of exaltation was preceded by his descent below all things. Only by submitting to the powers of demons and death and hell could he, in the resurrection, serve as our exemplar of a SAVED BEING...” (McConkie and Millet, Doctrinal Commentary on the Book of Mormon, vol. 1, p. 234) Please also see... * McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p. 238 where he said the Mormon "jesus" "Needs salvation...Came to earth to work out His own salvation”) and * McConkie, "The Seven Deadly Heresies,' in Speeches of the Year, 1980 [Provo: Brigham Young University Press, 1981] p. 78 where he said: "There was only one perfect being, the Lord Jesus. If men had to be perfect and live all of the law strictly, wholly, and completely, there would be only one saved person in eternity." [cited in Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983 (1983) p. 72] | NO | 1 John 4:14; John 4:42 (THE Savior, not the saved!) |
| 8. Is Jesus but one 'savior'-'redeemer' among many? | YES and NO (Lds contradicts themselves) | LDS: NO: D&C 76:1, 1832; changed 1834 in D&C 103:9 & expanded to save the dead in 1841-1842 (D&C 124; D&C 128:1-3, 17-18...esp. v. 18); also Lds cite Obadiah 21 in the Old Testament as some sort of "justification" for applying "saviors" (plural) to themselves -- alleged "saviors" of mankind via baptisms for the dead! | NO | "THE Savior" in 1 John 4:14 and John 4:42, not saviors plural; also, in 1 Cor. 15:29 which Mormons have hijacked as their own -- the apostle Paul says "they" -- not "we" -- practiced baptism for the dead; also Obadiah 21 has NOTHING to do with baptizing the dead! |
| 9. Were our sins 'atoned' for in the Garden of Gethesemane? | Lds say YES | Lds misinterpret blood sweat in garden of Gethsemane as Jesus was praying as having "effect of atonement" (see official Lds magazine Ensign, for example: June 2007, p. 15) | NO | Col. 1:20; also Jesus never said "pick up your 'garden' and follow me" but said, "pick up your 'CROSS' and follow me" |
| 10. Was Jesus quite violent at the point of His death? | YES | 3 Nephi 8:8-->3 Nephi 9:12, esp. 8:23; 9:12, Book of Mormon | NO | Jesus became sin (2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Pet. 2:24) and became a curse (Gal. 3:13) on behalf of all, absorbing God's wrath on our behalf |
| 11. Did Jesus really die for our personal sins or our rebellious nature? | NOTHING CONCLUSIVE: Lds "scriptures" are all over the map on this one: Mormonism teaches that (a) children have no sin nature & "cannot sin until they begin to become accountable" (D&C 29:47) -- even tho the Lds Pearl of Great Price teaches that children are conceived in sin (Moses 6:55), which "jives" more with Psalm 51:5 and 58:3; (b) yet the Book of Mormon teaches that men have a "carnal and fallen state" and that unless "they become new creatures...unless they do this, they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God." (Mosiah 27:26)...adding in v. 25 & elsewhere in the BoM that they "must be born again"; but apparently that was all past tense in the pre-incarnational years of Jesus Christ, because Joseph Smith taught how Jesus redeemed men from the fall, making men "innocent before God" (D&C 93:38)...so men are "innocent" before God? (Oh, sure, that explains today's world "nicely") | Article of Faith 2: "All men will be punished for own sin." | BOTH | 1 John 1:7-9; Romans 5:8-9 |
| 12. Is Christ's powerful atoning blood diluded to 'anemic' levels? | YES | Even tho a few Mormon "scriptures" emphasize the cleansing power of Christ's blood (see, for example Alma 7:14; D&C 76:41; Moses 6:59), Mormonism roots this in law-keeping (D&C 76:52) | NO | 1 John 1:7; Rev. 1:5; Rev. 5:9; Rev. 7:14; Heb. 13:12; Heb. 10:19; Eph. 1:7; Rom. 5:9 |
| 13. Is Jesus as unique as the Bible makes Him out to be? | NO | a: D&C 93:29; b: Moses 3:5; 6:36; Abraham 3:22-23, Pearl of Great Price; c: See references in #7; d: Misreading of Obadiah 21, Old Testament; e: Note references to "gods" as if true plural gods existed: D&C 76:58; D&C 121:28; 132:20,32,37; Moses 4:11; Lds also cite Spring 1844 King Follett sermon from Smith as if "revelational" -- how people have to "become gods themselves"; f: D&C 20:19 -- Only being to be worshiped is God, yet Mormons don't regard Jesus as same "being" as Heavenly Father | YES! | John 3:18: The "Only" Begotten Son from eternity, not one "spirit son" begotten in the pre-existence among millions! |
| 14. Can Jesus be prayed to directly? | NO, all Lds prayer is to Heavenly Father, but can be directed through Christ | No Lds "scripture" to back this up; in fact, Lds "scripture" states the opposite! (see 3 Nephi 19:18, 24-26) | YES! | Acts 7:59 |
Well done. Are you saying that this Jesus was one who had a heavenly father who was once a man, (contra Ps. 90:2) begetting him thru carnal relations with one of his many celestial wives, (contra Jn. 4:24; Lk. 24:39) making Him the brother of Lucifer, and incarnated thru carnal relations with Mary?
“Another Jesus..Spirit,..gospel.” indeed. (2Cor. 11:4)
Which proves that Mormons are in the Bible:
“For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. “ (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)
Heaven and Hell (Dole) n. 2
2. The Lord is God of Heaven
First and foremost, we need to know who the God of heaven is, since everything else depends on this. Throughout the whole of heaven, no one is acknowledged as God of heaven except the Lord. Angels say what he himself taught, namely that he is one with the Father, that the Father is in him and he in the Father, that anyone who sees him sees the Father, and that everything holy emanates from him (John 10:30, 38; 14:9-11;16 16:13-15). I have often talked with angels about this, and their consistent testimony has been that in heaven they cannot divide the Divine into three because they both know and perceive that the Divine is one and that this "one" is in the Lord. They have also told me that when people arrive from earth with the idea of three divine beings they cannot be admitted to heaven. This is because their thinking vacillates between one opinion and the other, and in heaven they are not allowed to think "three" and say "one."(a)
In heaven people actually speak directly from their thought, so that we have there a kind of thoughtful speech or audible thought. This means that if people have divided the Divine into three in the world and held a separate image of each one without gathering and focusing these three into one, they cannot be accepted. In heaven, there is a communication of all thoughts, so if people arrive who think "three" and say "one," they are recognized immediately for what they are and are sent away.
Still, it needs to be realized that in the other life any people who have not put "good" in one compartment and "true" in another-who have not separated faith from love-accept the heavenly concept of the Lord as God of the universe once they have been taught. It is different, though, with people who have separated their faith from their lives, that is, who have not lived by the guiding principles of true faith. a. In the other life, Christians have been examined to find out what kind of concept of God they had, and it has turned out that they had a concept of three gods: 2329, 5256, 10736, 10738, 10821. On the recognition in heaven of a trinity within the Lord: 14, 15, 1729, 2005, 5256, 9303.
Thanks for this link!
Somehow I’d never heard it before.
I just sent it out as a suggestion to my pastor and the music team at church.
THAT out shut some mouths!
(and hopefully open some HEARTS!)
I used to have mohair than I do now.
Now I gots NOhair!
Anyway, here is what my Church believes about Jesus Christ:
1. Jesus created this earth.
2. Jesus created worlds without number.
3. Jesus was the firstborn spirit of our Father in Heaven.
4. Jesus was a God before He was born on this earth.
5. Jesus was the one who established the covenant with Abraham.
6. Jesus was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
7. Jesus appeared to Moses in the burning bush.
8. Jesus helped the children of Israel escape from Egypt and parted the Red Sea.
9. Jesus gave the Ten Commandments to Moses.
10. Jesus is Jehovah, the God of the Old Testament.
And what do you believe about Jesus? Jesus is my Savior.
ALL: Here Saundra is giving us an open invite to tell her what we believe about Jesus, and I've gone a step further in elaborating what is so different about the Mormon "Jesus" in the charts from last and this post...just more "documentation" in this chart than the last:
To summarize the chart briefly:
The traditional Christ within Christianity is...
...uniquely THE ONLY begotten Son from eternity past, not one of millions of God's pre-existent "sons";
He is uniquely Savior, not one of millions of saviors per Mormondom;
He is uniquely Creator and divine and self-existent from eternity past, not one of MILLIONS of men who are somehow likewise "self-existent" from eternity past;
His blood is uniquely powerful beyond men's commandment-keeping -- lest the promise Jesus made to the thief on the cross become a false prophecy;
His blood is potent enough to cover ALL sins, unlike the Mormon Jesus who leaves men to "make up" for anemic blood via their own "blood atonement."
He absorbed God's wrath vs. the Book of Mormon violent Jesus who took out His wrath upon thousands of residents in alleged 16 Book of Mormon cities! The violent Mormon Jesus sunk, entombed, and otherwise destroyed perhaps up to 90,000 upon His death on the Mormon cross! The Bible knows no such horrific crucifixion aftermath fairy tales...
| Questions Distinguishing 'Mormon' jesus from Jesus of Bible | Mormon 'Jesus' | Jesus of Bible |
| 1. Was Jesus self-existent from all eternity past? | NO: Lds say ALL "intelligences" -- including Jesus -- existed (D&C 93:29) before becoming a "spirit" child born to a divine goddess on a planet near Kolob; yet Joseph Smith could not even keep his story straight here, giving a "revelation" in 1831 that "from all eternity to all eternity, the Great I AM, even Jesus Christ" (D&C 39:1) + Alma 13:9 talks about the "only begotten without beginning of days" I openly dare LDS to forthrightly exegete Doctrine & Covenants 39:1, which says: Hearken and listen to the voice of him who is from all eternity to all eternity, the Great I AM, even Jesus Christ.... What does "from all eternity to all eternity" mean? "The intelligence of spirits had no beginning, neither will it have an end. That is good logic...Intelligence is eternal & exists upon a self-existent principle...The first principles of man are self-existent with God." Smith, p. 210 [TofPresidents of the Church] | YES: Bible: Before Abraham was, "I AM" (John 8:58) ["I AM" is a divine Name first introduced in Exodus 3:14 and means, "The Self-Existing One"...THE Jesus is self-existent and didn't need a "mom god" on a planet near Kolob to "progress" in His life. Mormons flat-out deny the teaching found in John 1:1, 18 and Micah 5:2, because they claim Jesus was part of a past creation process – (obviously if Jesus’ Mormon “father” was once a man, then Jesus was at some point “less” in stature at that “time”) * "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...the Word became flesh and dwelt among us [Jesus]" (Jn. 1:1,18). * ”But thou, Bethlehem Ephrata, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting." (Micah 5:2) |
| 2. Is the title 'firstborn' as applied to Christ linked to being the "elder brother" of you and me as pre-earth spirits, or to Christ as pre-eminent heir and creator of all things? | The Firstborn "spirit" of many born spirits on a planet near Kolob; the 'Mormon Jesus' at his "spirit birth" was only "more special" at his "spirit birth" than you or me only because He was the "firstborn" | In Hebrew culture, the firstborn = "heir"...Jesus was not the "first" to be born...though Paul also adds in Col. 1:18 Jesus was the "firstborn of the dead" -- the first to rise from the dead. Colossians 1:15-16 explains this Jesus as "heir" -- "firstborn" -- as this Greek word meant pre-eminent -- or has first right over all creation...Psalm 80:27 demonstrates this idea of priority of position as Col. 1:16 says Jesus is creator of all, all things were created for Jesus (cf. Hebrews 3:4) |
| 3. Can the 'Creator' be One who was 'created' (as a 'creature')? | YES "And virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pg.269 implying that "Christendom" postulates a "mythical Christ" because we say Jesus is "uncreated" -- and part of a "triple unity" with the Father and Holy Spirit). | NO: 16 For by him were ALL things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: ALL things were created by him, and for him: (Col. 1:16) |
| 4. Was Jesus as Son of God perfect from eternity past? | NO: "Even Christ himself was NOT perfect at first; he received not a fulness at first, but he received grace for grace, and he continued to receive more and more until he received a fulness." (Lds 6th "prophet" Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, 1986, p. 68; cf. Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith, p. 153) * "...we have a correct idea of the character of the Son from the writings of the apostles, so far as they learned it. But while he was tabernacling in the flesh, he was more or less contaminated with fallen nature." (Brigham Young, JoD vol. 6, p. 95) | YES: "He made Him WHO KNEW NO SIN to be sin" (2 Cor. 5:21); Christ "did no sin" (1 Pet. 2:22) |
| 5. Was Jesus always divine from eternity past? | NO: * "Jesus BECAME a God and reached His great state of understanding through consistent effort and continuous obedience to all the Gospel truths and universal laws." (p. 51 Milton Hunter, The Gospel Through the Ages); * "Christ ATTAINED Godhood while yet in pre-existence..." (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1966, p. 323) | YES: "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." (Jesus' prayer in Gethsemane, John 17:5); ...unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever (Heb. 1:8) |
| 6. Was Jesus born "at" Bethlehem? | NO: "...he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem..." (Alma 7:10, Book of Mormon) | YES: Actual Jesus born IN Bethlehem (Matt. 2:1) not "at Jerusalem" Was Jesus born "at Jerusalem"? |
| 7. Was one of the purposes that Christ came to earth was so that He, Himself could become a "saved being?" | YES: The 'Mormon' Jesus: "Christ is a saved being” (Lds "apostle" McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p 257) “Modern revelation speaks of our Lord as he that ‘ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth‘ (D&C 88:6). Christ's rise to the throne of exaltation was preceded by his descent below all things. Only by submitting to the powers of demons and death and hell could he, in the resurrection, serve as our exemplar of a SAVED BEING...” (McConkie and Millet, Doctrinal Commentary on the Book of Mormon, vol. 1, p. 234) Please also see... * McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p. 238 where he said the Mormon "jesus" "Needs salvation...Came to earth to work out His own salvation”) and * McConkie, "The Seven Deadly Heresies,' in Speeches of the Year, 1980 [Provo: Brigham Young University Press, 1981] p. 78 where he said: "There was only one perfect being, the Lord Jesus. If men had to be perfect and live all of the law strictly, wholly, and completely, there would be only one saved person in eternity." [cited in Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983 (1983) p. 72] | NO: I'm sorry, but the real Christ did not need to "work out His own salvation" as Lds apostles teach; in fact, He is THE Savior of the world: And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be THE Savior of the world. (1 John 4:14; cf. John 4:42). |
| 8. Is Jesus but one 'savior'-'redeemer' among many? | YES: The "Jesus" of Brigham Young is one redeemer-savior among who knows how many? "He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. On every earth. How many earths are there?... Consequently every earth has its redeemer..." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, p. 71, 1870); cf. how Mormons name themselves as "saviors" -- numerous citations: Are Mormon people LITERAL saviors of dead Jews, others? | NO: "And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be THE Savior of the world." (1 John 4:14); "They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is THE Savior of the world.” (John 4:42) |
| 9. Were our sins 'atoned' for in the Garden of Gethesemane? | YES: * "It was in Gethsemane, on the slopes of the Mount of Olives, that Jesus made his perfect atonement by the shedding of his blood more so than on the cross." (BYU Professor Robert J. Matthews, A Bible! ABible! p. 282) * "It was there [Gethsemane] that the Savior paid the price for all the sorrows, sins and transgressions of every human being who ever lives or ever will live." (Seventy -- Second Quorum -- Wolfgang H. Paul, "Gratitude for the Atonement," Ensign, June 2007, p. 15) | NO: This Jesus didn't atone for sins by sweating blood in the garden; He did it on Calvary as the Bible proclaims in Col. 1:20: "And, having made peace through the blood of the cross..." |
| 10. Was Jesus quite violent at the point of His death? | YES: Lds "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith talked about "...a period of darkness at the death of Christ... "greater period of darkness and terrible punishment came upon the people in the Western Hemisphere because of their extreme wickedness..." (Answers to Gospel Questions, vol. 3, p. 45, Deseret Book Co., 1960) Biblical Jesus came to see that they would have life (John 10:10); the Book of Mormon jesus came to bring down destruction (3 Nephi 9:12) and ensure that people would "howl" in that destruction (3 Nephi 8:23); The Biblical Jesus came to ensure people would have abundant life (John 10:10); the Book of Mormon jesus came to ensure people would be in "continual...mourning" (3 Nephi 8:23); The Biblical Jesus came to be the Light of the world (John 1:9; 8:12; 9:5); the Book of Mormon jesus came to yield complete darkness for three days (3 Nephi 8:23) NOTE: Please read 3 Nephi 8:8-->3 Nephi 9:12 for entire picture of overwhelming destruction caused by the Mormon 'Jesus': Cities were supposedly all either sunk by the Mormon jesus, or horrifically burned to death, plus for added emphasis, ”many great destructions have I caused to come upon this land...” (3 Nephi 9:12)...All told, upon the Mormon jesus' death, he supposedly unleashes punishment. He levels 16 cities, killing 70,000-->90,000 people! [Note: Nothing of the kind is stated in the Bible!] Yes, there was judgment on the cross! Yes, it was terrible! But the real Jesus absorbed all of that judgment and terror -- our very sins -- there on the cross! The sad result is that too many LDS & RLDS alike ONLY see the Book of Mormon Easter judgment upon people! The week that followed the Book of Mormon jesus’ resurrection, was a terrible 4 days or so! No wonder a tremendous aversion to the cross exists among Mormons due to Joseph Smith's version of post crucifixion events! |
NO: The Biblical Jesus came to see that they would have life (John 10:10), to ensure people would have abundant life (John 10:10), and to be the Light of the world (John 1:9; 8:12; 9:5) |
| 11. Did Jesus really die for our personal sins or our rebellious nature? | NO: Lds "apostle" Jeffrey Holland though claims forgiveness of personal sins applies to only to members of the Mormon church: From this Holland article: Latter-day Saints believe that other aspects of Christ's gift are conditional upon obedience and diligence in keeping God's commandments. For example, while members of the human family are freely and universally given a reprieve from Adam's sin through no effort or action of their own, they are not freely and universally given a reprieve of their own sins unless they pledge faith in Christ, repent of those sins, are baptized in his name, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost and confirmation into Christ's church... Source: Lds "apostle" Jeffrey Holland: ATONEMENT OF JESUS CHRIST - Mormon- (OPEN) The Mormon 2nd article of faith emphasizes the Mormon doctrine of men being subject to punishment for their own sins; this Mormon "jesus" doesn't serve as our Substitute [LDS second article of faith: "We believe that men will be punished for their OWN sins, and not for Adam's transgression."] The Mormon second article of faith, therefore, is a half-truth and a false gospel. Men who do not place their faith in the true Jesus Christ will indeed die in their sins; beyond that, Jesus' blood covers the sin of others. The flip side of the Mormon 2nd article of faith is that the Mormon jesus was simply punished for Adam's sin to release us to "free agency." | YES, BOTH: "...the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from ALL sin." (1 John 1:7) Other Biblical verses rejected: 1 John 2:2; 1 Peter 2:24; Heb. 1:3 |
| 12. Is Christ's powerful atoning blood diluded to 'anemic' levels? | YES: Although the Book of Mormon makes some solid statements about Christ's powerful atoning blood (see, for example Mosiah 3:18), Mormon leaders wind up accusing Jesus of having rather anemic blood; yes, Lds "scriptures" highlight His blood as one which cleanses from unrighteousness (Alma 7:14, Book of Mormon; D&C 76:41, Doctrines & Covenants; Moses 6:59, Pearl of Great Price) -- unfortunately such ultimate cleansing is rooted solely on ability to keep commandments: "That by keeping the commandments, they MIGHT be washed and cleansed from all their sins." (D&C 76:52). Other related statements to diluting cleansing power of Christ's blood: * "Joseph Smith taught that there were certain sins so grievous that man may commit, that they will place the transgressors beyond the power of the atonement of Christ. If these offenses are committed, then the blood of Christ will not cleanse them from their sins even though they repent. Therefore their only hope is to have their own blood shed to atone, as far as possible, in their behalf. This is scriptural doctrine, and is taught in all the standard works of the Church." (Lds "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith, "Doctrines of Salvation, vol.1 , p. 135-136) * "Man may commit certain grievous sins--according to his light and knowledge--that will place him beyond the reach of the atoning blood of Christ. If then he would be save he must make sacrifice of his own life to atone-- so far as in his power lies -- for that sin, for the blood of Christ alone under certain circumstances will not avail." (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 93). So much for the power of Christ's blood to cover sins per Mormonism! * "Christians speak often of the blood of Christ and its cleansing power. Much that is believed and taught on this subject, however, is such utter nonsense and so palpably false that to believe it is to lose one's salvation. Many go so far, for instance, as to pretend, at least, to believe that if we confess Christ with our lips and avow that we accept him as our personal Savior, we are thereby saved. His blood, without other act than mere belief, they say, makes us clean." (Lds Tract titled, "What the Mormons Think of Christ, p. 31) * "There is not a man or woman, who violates the covenants made with their God, that will not be required to pay the debt. The blood of Christ will never wipe that out, your own blood must atone for it; and the judgments of the Almighty will come, sooner or later, and every man and woman will have to atone for breaking their covenants" (Brigham Young, March 16, 1856, Journal of Discourses, 3:247) | NO: "...the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from ALL sin." (1 John 1:7); "To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood" (Rev. 1:5); "... with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation."(Rev. 5:9); "they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (Rev. 7:14); "And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood." (Heb. 13:12); "Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus..." (Heb. 10:19); "In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace" (Eph. 1:7); Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!" (Rom. 5:9) |
| 13. Is Jesus as unique as the Bible makes Him out to be? | NO: Due to unique Lds doctrine that (a) we were all eternal; (b) we were all spirit babies just like Jesus; (c) their teaching that Jesus was a "saved being" -- in need of "salvation"; (d) all Mormons become "saviors" via baptizing dead people; (e) all temple Mormons become gods. (f) and SOME Lds leaders' teachings that Jesus is not deserving of worship. The Mormon "jesus" upon spirit birth was not unique other than his spirit birth order. He's just one god among perhaps millions of Mormon "gods." (Lds "prophet" Spencer W. Kimball not all that long ago told 225,000 gathered that perhaps "225,000 gods" were among them then!!!) | YES: 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of THE ONLY begotten Son of God. (John 3:18) Jesus is either "the ONLY begotten Son" from eternity -- not one of MANY begotten spirit sons in some pre-existence -- or He is not unique; and if Lds say "begotten" references such new "condition" Jesus acquired upon conception in Mary's womb, how is it that Jesus suddenly became a Son and the Father suddenly became a Father -- unless it's true that Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie & Lds "prophet" Brigham Young taught that the paternity was a literal one -- that the Father came down and had sex with Mary!!! |
| 14. Can Jesus be prayed to directly? | NO: Yet... “And behold, they began to pray; and they did pray unto Jesus, calling him their Lord and God…when Jesus had thus prayed unto the Father, he came unto his disciples, and behold, they did still continue, without ceasing, to pray unto him…And it came to pass that Jesus blessed them as they did pray unto him…And Jesus said unto them: Pray on; nevertheless they did not cease to pray.” (3 Nephi 19:18, 24-26, Book of Mormon) | YES Stephen, Acts prayed directly to Jesus! While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." (Acts 7:59) |
My collar doesn't say "Bad to the bone" for NOTHIN'; you know!
As Christians we are supposed to self condemn for our sins, and go forth and help others and defend those who cannot defend themselves. None of us can defend our sins and we need our fellow brothers and sisters to love us and defend us and have fellowship with us. Ours is not the spirit of fear, fearing some presidential candidate or some academic writing, or some movement. If the spirit has come into our house and supped with us, we fear none who can hurt our physical bodies and we fear none who seek to hurt us spiritually for we cannot be hurt spiritually even if the attacks cost us our physical bodies. We have died to ourselves already and the spiritual war of ideas is over for us. We seek to steer elections indeed, and change the course of national events indeed. Joseph Smith was not condemned for always wanting to start a church as his life goal, and Mitt Romney is not condemned for wanting to be president, and I am not condemned for wanting to be a minister and ambassador for Christ. Mitt Romney and Barack Obama was a rare “win-win” possibility for the United States. Mitt Romney, if he had won, would have been used for the Lord God Jesus Christ’s purposes, just like Barack Obama will be used for the Lord God Jesus Christ’s purposes. The Lord God Jesus Christ will have his way with His kingdom and His empire.
Anyway, a lady brought her little dog along 
and my four goats could have eaten it, but since the are prey animals, not predators, they went into the defensive posture; even though they were BEHIND defence!
Stayed that way 'til the lil doggie went away.
HMMmm...
Kinda sounds like the description of a LIAR! to me.
But HEY! - what do I know?
WHAT???
Pointing out FACTS published by a heretical organization is BULLYING to you?
$%#&$*splutter$%#*%#&&$
Not out, silly wabbit; OUGHTA!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.