Posted on 09/10/2012 6:58:49 PM PDT by NorthernCrunchyCon
Wagon Train Descendants tell tale of 1857 massacre in Utah
Taping an episode of WTJR's "Truth Outreach" with host Rocky Hulse, the four men forgot about the cameras.
They didn't forget their story.
A massacre in 1857 in southwest Utah claimed the lives of some of their ancestors. What came to be called the Mountain Meadows Massacre shadows each generation, but Scott Fancher said the public knows little of "one of the single most important historical incidents" in the nation's history.
"Apart from the Oklahoma City bombing, this was the single largest act of domestic white-on-white violence in the history of the U.S.," he said.
The 150th anniversary of the massacre on Sept. 11 renews the push by Scott Fancher, Bob Fancher, Phil Bolinger, Ron Wright and the Mountain Meadows Massacre Foundation to boost awareness and gain federal stewardship of the property where the events occurred.
The effort pits the foundation against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints , which controls the burial sites and, the men say, has never taken responsibility for the deaths of 120 men, women and children.
Scott Fancher said perpetrators included church leaders and militia members. "They have never once apologized to the families of the massacred victims," he said. "We think frankly it's high damn time."
Alexander Fancher thought it was time to start a new life as a rancher in California in 1857. He gathered up 140 people — mostly relatives who were Methodists, not LDS members — and left Arkansas with 40 wagons, close to 1,000 cattle and 200 horses.
The Fanchon-Baker train was one of the wealthiest and best-provisioned wagon trains to make the trip through Kansas , then onto Salt Lake City and southwest Utah.
"What they didn't know probably was at the time Utah Territory was in rebellion against the U.S.," Bob Fanchon said.
"This wagon train happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time," Bolinger said.
The train was besieged by Indians and local Mormons dressed as Indians. Fighting lasted until Sept. 11, when John D. Lee, representing the Mormons and the adopted son of Mormon leader Brigham Young , rode into the wagon camp under a white flag. Lee said the Indians would allow train member to leave, unarmed and without their possessions, under a Mormon escort.
The wagon train members — women holding their infants, children under the age of eight in one group, older children in another group and the men with individual Mormon escorts — walked along a one-mile stretch away from the wagons. Then a signal was given, and all but the youngest were massacred.
"The men mostly were lucky enough to be shot at point-blank range. The women and children, most of them received a billy club to the head," Bolinger said.
The attackers not only took the wagons and all the goods, but stripped the bodies of clothing and jewelry, Bob Fanchon said, and the bodies were left on the ground. The surviving children were taken in by Mormon families.
"It was such a horrible mess. They rerouted the wagon train (route) several miles so they wouldn't be able to smell the stink of the rot," Bolinger said.
U.S. Army Maj. James Carleton led the investigation of the incident. Carleton buried the dead in four mass graves, including one that came to be known as the Carleton Cairn marked with a cross, along the mile-long killing field. He testified before Congress and the Army returned the surviving children to their families in Arkansas in 1859.
Fifty-four warrants were issued, but Lee was the only one arrested.
"To this day, he was the only one out of the 50-plus clubbers and shooters that were on the killing field that day ever tried, convicted, executed and held responsible," Bolinger said.
"For the longest time, the Indians were blamed wrongly, the emigrants themselves were blamed," Scott Fanchon said. "More recently, the LDS church to its credit has admitted at least local Mormons were involved which we've all known."
The original cairn was destroyed and rebuilt several times. The most recent monument was built in 1999 by the church.
"It has a little plaque embedded in it the basically says the site is owned and maintained by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints . That's all the interpretation we get for the victims, for our families," Bolinger said.
Bolinger said the foundation won some initial support from Elder Marlin Jensen, the church's liaison with massacre descendant organizations, but lost that after church leadership declared it was "not in the best interest of the church" to pursue federal stewardship.
As a compromise, the foundation has asked the church to consider national historic landmark designation as a way to protect and preserve the site.
"The LDS church as an institution promotes many of its historic sites to be designated including Nauvoo and Temple Square," Scott Fanchon said. "When they say we don't want the federal government involved, we say it's a bit hypocritical."
Church spokespeople in Salt Lake City did not return a call from The Herald-Whig.
In a June story by the Associated Press, spokeswoman Kim Farah said Mormon leaders are committed to appropriately preserving the site.
"The church has owned the monument site at Mountain Meadows for many years. The property is open to the public, and considerable time and resources are allocated to ensure that the property is well-maintained, open to the public, and that those who perished there are appropriately remembered," she said.
In the same article, Bolinger said it's not right for the church to own the site. "How do you think the Kennedy family would feel if the Lee Harvey Oswald family had control of the Kennedy tomb?"
By the way, you’re VERY transparent. You should have made more of an effort to establish your bona fides here.
Actually, since you raise the issue, Romney has a very interesting historical connection to the massacre. Mormons carried out the massacre out of vengeance for the killing of Parley Pratt - of whom both Romney and Jon Huntsman are direct descendents and cousins.
Pratt was killed by the angry husband of a woman that Pratt had seduced and engaged in an adulterous affair with under the guise of “plural marriage” and Pratt’s close connection with Joseph Smith Jr. Pratt had convinced her to run off with him and, if I recall correctly, take the man’s children with her.
If I recall correctly, your mom had an affinity with the sailors of the 7th fleet.
Or maybe I was mistaken.
“I think I’ll work a little harder to elect conservatives and Republicans in November’s election in your honor.”
Cool! But don’t do it for me. Do it for the country and future generations.
I’m supporting several conservatives locally who running under the GOP. But I refuse to support RINOs any longer.
That whole Kansas-Missouri border war, which started before the Civil War and got really blood-drenched during the Civil War, saw hundreds and hundreds of non-combatant people killed in savage guerilla attacks on towns and outposts.
Quantrill was certainly one of the more prolific killers at that time and place..
My mom was a stay-at-home mother who never took a penny from the state. You’ve just insulted her. Obviously you’re a democrat.
“.....I’m supporting several conservatives locally who running under the GOP......”
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Since your postings give absolutely no evidence of that, I choose not to believe this little proclamation.
Obviously you’re dense.
You’re stretching the envelope on Romney/Meadow mountain and I was just pointing that out.
I’m sure your mom is a wonderful woman. You, however, didn’t make the cut.
Go back to snake twisting.
“.....But I refuse to support RINOs any longer.”
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Any longer? I’ve searched your posting history and find no evidence that you’ve ever supported RINOs—or ANY Republicans (conservative or not) for that matter. So pardon me for my total disbelief. “Ye shall know them by their fruits.”
How about some research and posts on the massacres by odingo’s relatives in kenya?
Or are you just on an anti-Mormon Jihad?
That’s not an argument I can engage. Only you would know what you believe.
Having said that, what is it about the Mountain Meadow Massacre and the desecration of the final resting place of its Christian victims that makes you uncomfortable?
The creibility went right out the window with the statement “Apart from the Oklahoma City bombing, this was the single largest act of domestic white-on-white violence in the history of the U.S.,” .
Was the War of Northern Aggression just a figment of our imagination???
The logic of this and other anti-Mormon threads is simply this: Mormons were not perfect in the 19th century. Therefore vote Obama, and subject America to four more years of Marxist adventurism and possible economic collapse.
In other words, there is no logic.
Not sure what any of this has to do with Romney vs. Obama, but anyway...
No. Don’t vote for Obama. I would think it obvious after four years that he is just as bad as Romney. And even if this was not the case, Obama’s fanatical support for pre-natal infanticide (including of the partial birth variety) makes him anathema to any decent conservative voter. (Although not Rockefeller Republicans like Mitt’s mother.)
The best course of action is to support conservatives downticket.
There have been numerous recent attempts to place a cross on the Mountain Meadows Massacre victims’ monument. The cross gets torn down every single time.
What is it about Mormons & the cross?
No, I don’t think Mitt Romney’s LDS faith will be the basis for the Dems’ expected October Surprise. The 1857 massacre is a separate & living issue from that day to this.
There are mostly plain everyday Mormons like Mitt and there are the Nazi Mormons of the Intermountain Corridor stretching from Utah to Idaho. These are the cross desecrators.
Why Mormonism Is Not Christian
by Leonard C. Albert
http://www.laityalive.wordpress.com/
3/07/2012
... The biblical teaching on blood atonement is that the shedding of blood is required for forgiveness of sin (Hebrews 9:22). The Bible teaches that the blood of Christ cleanses from "all sin" (1 John 1:7). Early Mormon theology, however, teaches that for certain sins the blood of Christ alone does not avail and the person's own blood must be shed for atonement. Under the section, "Blood Atonement," of the book, Mormon Doctrine, LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie wrote, "… there are some serious sins for which the cleansing of Christ does not operate, and the law of God is that men must then have their own blood shed to atone for their sins." The 10th Mormon prophet, Joseph Fielding Smith, in Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. I, page 135 says, "Joseph Smith taught that there were certain sins so grievous that man may commit, that they will place the transgression beyond the power of atonement of Christ. If these offenses are committed, then the blood of Christ will not cleanse them from their sins even though they repent. Therefore, their only hope is to have their own blood shed to atone as far as possible in their behalf." Think back to Gary Gilmore executed by a firing squad in 1977 at Utah State Prison in Draper. Think back to John Albert Taylor executed in Utah in 1996 and Ronnie Lee Gardner executed in Utah in 2010 - all by firing squads. The prevailing belief is that in its early history, Utah used a firing squad because it allows 1 to "shed his own blood." ...
Frankly, in the larger scheme of things, nobody gives a rat’s ass.
Yes, a very good movie:
What makes me uncomfortable you ask? Annoyed is a more apt description. Annoyed at the presence of transparent trolls here. The following from post 34 above pretty well captures it:
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The logic of this and other anti-Mormon threads is simply this: Mormons were not perfect in the 19th century. Therefore vote Obama, and subject America to four more years of Marxist adventurism and possible economic collapse.
In other words, there is no logic.
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