Posted on 08/12/2012 9:20:00 PM PDT by Phinneous
A Jewish class on why Jews do not accept Christianity. I post for Jews to self-educate and for Christians to understand the Jewish point of view--not that it matters (that they do.)
Nice job distilling the class (shiur) I posted. :)
Really? I’m ashamed to say I didnt look at it. :oO I wasnt sure where you were coming from at the time! I just jumped into the postings! I’ll have to go back a read it now...sorry
Jesus was tested in all things as we are but never fell. That is how he is like us...tested.
But unlike us He is God...He never fell.
His choice as the perfect man (unlike Adam) was to submit to the Father.
Thanks blasater for your response on the last question!
Just another question, I would like to hear your reply on...
When the Angels appeared to Abraham, they were in the form of a human being, they even had the ability to eat food, so in essence G-d has allowed some kind of divine intervention that can transition a spiritual entity to come fourth in a physical entity...In fact those Angels when they went to Sodom were to blind the people in Sodom with obviously super-natural abilities....
So my question to you is do you believe G-d has the Power to transition his divine likeness into a Perfect Human Being? or does he only have the Power to transition Angels into human form from your perspective?
One more thing: Do you think the writings of Enoch are valid? I have been reading the writings in Enoch where the Angel U’riel teachig Enoch regarding the Universe/Heavenly realm...
Thanks Tarah!
“Is the Dome an abomination? A temple of satanallah, on the temple mount?
Does islam cause desolation? Look at how it ravages nations.
The abomination that causes desolation stands in mockery today.”
~ ~ ~
It isn’t a mystery, the two are written together, the “abomination of desolation” and the “continual sacrifice.”
Satan mimics the Holy SACRIFICE of the Mass with Black Masses. Satanists steal consecrated Hosts to desecrate them. The “abomination of desolation” takes place when the anti-Christ attempts to abolish the Eucharist.
If you say no, God is going to show the world in the soon Awakening (Rev 6:15-17), the 2nd Pentecost. Scripture and Prophecy states it, God wants us all to believe the same...get ready.
- - -
GOD SPEAKS WILL YOU LISTEN
11/06/07
A soul who does not partake of my Eucharist remains a spiritual baby. Just as a human baby must eat solid food to grow to adulthood, so spiritually you must receive my graces through the sacraments to mature to spiritual adulthood. The body must be fed to grow. Likewise, the soul must be fed to grow and mature. Satan knows this truth. This is why he has deceived many of my people with false interpretations of my scriptures.
Many teach the physical nation of Israel is the fulfillment of my scripture. Many teach the anti-Christ will resume the Jewish sacrifice in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem to constitute the abomination of desolation. This is a false teaching, not from God, but from human understanding. My son, in the book of Daniel, the persecution by the Jews under Antiochus can be considered a partial fulfillment of the abomination of desolation. But the complete fulfillment has not yet taken place. At my death, the veil in the temple was rent in two and the old sacrificial covenant was replaced by my new covenant. My sacrifice on the cross was the final sacrifice for my peoples’ sin. I am the fulfillment of the promise to Abraham. I am the seed of Abraham, the son of David, in whom all the nations of the earth are blessed. My nation of Israel is my church, not the modern nation of Israel. My people are now all those who become part of my church through sanctifying grace. The complete fulfillment of the prophecy from Daniel of the abomination of desolation will occur: when the continual sacrifice of the mass is abolished by the false prophet and the anti-Christ.
Acceptance of the protestant doctrine of the mass by anti-pope will be the fulfillment of the prophecy. The temple of God is my Holy Roman Catholic Church. My faithful remnant will be persecuted worldwide with the mass taking place underground. These conditions will be similar to the early persecutions by the Romans. The Roman persecutions were a foreshadowing of the persecution and time of the anti-Christ. Remember all this will be allowed and take place according to the will of my Father in heaven. Scripture must and will be fulfilled.
page 98 ~
http://www.scribd.com/doc/22505473/God-Speaks-Will-You-Listen
I do not think Jewish outreach applies to Atheists that happen to have been born to Jewish parents...
If you don’t believe in G-d, you are not going to convince them that there is, because it is *Faith* that enables you to believe in the first place....
“Jews for Jesus are Christians, like MESSIANIC JEWS or whatever flavor of the day movement is to recruit Jews to abandon Judiasm and adopt Christianity.”
~ ~ ~
Messianic Judaism is a modern Protestant sect begun by a
Baptist minister trying to convert Jews to Protestantism.
It amounts to using a few Old Testament terms and preaching
the “altar call which is Faith Alone”, “Bible Alone”, etc.
There are actually splits off already from Messianic Judaism, sound familiar?
“distilling the class (shiur) I posted. :)”
Oh, I just listened to it. That was good. He brings up a lot of good points. I liked his point that (paraphasing again) Just the fact that there is a NT and the Tanakh is relegated to “OT” status....invalidates the message of Yeshu. For Torah says over and over...it is forever, to be unchanged. Throughout your generations.
“Maybe its just this: for 2,000 years, Christians have savagely persecuted us in the name of Christian love and in the name of Christ. Literally millions of my people have been brutally murdered, raped, robbed, vilified, exiled and humiliated by Christians. In many cases, my people were burned alive rather than accept Christianity. It’s very hard for me to respect your “arguments” after we have suffered so much by all your past evangelism.”
Maybe a little less than 2,000 years. The Jews prior to the Roman decimation had fallen into intense apostasy, and their persecution of Christians was quite intense. Though I do not blame you or even “Judaism” for it, as Christians were persecuted by most everyone. I’m not sure if you’re even aware, but even the High Priest at the time of the Temple’s destruction had simply attained the position through bribary. Josephus tells of signs and wonders being apparent prior to the siege, such as a comet that hung over the city in the form o a sword, or sights and sounds of armies fighting, or the temple doors being opened of their own accord, a quaking followed by “Let us depart hence.” Titus also reports the same, though he does not mention all of them. Certainly, every time Israel has been so decimated it has been a result of divine judgment, though, of course, the enemies of Israel are also punished when the Jews are released from that bondage. What’s interesting is that you blame Christianity for your problems, and maybe you even blame the Romans for the dispersion. However, it was predicted that it would happen in the prophet Daniel, as well as by Jesus prior to the destruction.
Luk 21:20-24 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. (21) Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. (22) For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. (23) But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. (24) And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
These scriptures have been fulfilled to the letter, which you so aptly pointed out yourself.
I appreciate the respectful tone of your comment. No doubt, there have been many instances of good deeds. For all the brutality my father experienced at the hands of the Nazis in concentration camps, there were a few examples of decency. But, like the scope of our long history as a people, I am sad to say the examples of good deeds are vastly outweighed by the bad, the worse and the horrific. Think like a batting average of .010.
Don’t misunderstand me. The good deeds have been awesome, often heroic and are appreciated. But on the whole, I can say without hesitation, but with due irony, Christianity has a very large cross to bear.
Well if GOD cannot convince them, I think the Human Species are going to have a hard time...
GOD is everywhere, yet people still refuse to see him and his Glory...
Nothing more stubborn and obstinate than the Human Spirit..
YIKES! LOL...
““bad people cut off,” there is no evidence for that.”
Of course there is. Do a word study on Karet...cut-off. ONLY bad people are cut-off. Righteous people are NEVER cut-off.
“cut-off” from the land of the living....land of the living also means Israel. This is prophetic language for being exiled. Isaiah uses a lot of poetic language in his prophecies.”
Evidence? There is no evidence for the word Karath being used for exile. It is always a “cutting off,” and when applied to humans it involves death. I can find no instance where it refers to exile. There is also no evidence that someone “cut off” is inherently bad. Where it involves someone wicked being cut off, the scripture identifies the person as wicked and then says they will be cut off. If the word implied they were wicked, why would the sentence identify them first as wicked? It’s like using the word execution in the context of criminals, though not only criminals are executed.
Jer 11:19 But I was like a lamb or an ox that is brought to the slaughter; and I knew not that they had devised devices against me, saying, Let us destroy the tree with the fruit thereof, and let us [cut him off] from the land of the living, that his name may be no more remembered.
In this case, Jeremiah uses the word “karath” to describe what his enemies want to do with him. If Karath meant something like a punishment from God for the wicked, Jeremiah would not have used it so casually for himself.
Therefore, the meaning of the word is the most obvious one. It is used in instances of cutting off branches, cutting off fruit, cutting off foreskin, making covenants, and finally cutting off people from life.
I think you should read the the scripture says, and not what you want it to say. It’s also interesting that you have not addressed this part of Daniel’s prophecy:
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
All of this, of course, is easily applicable to the Messiah. And the end of this prophecy concludes with the destruction of the Temple, even while this section promises “to finish transgression, to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity.” Maybe you can invent some Hebrew words to make it mean something different, somehow. Good luck for that.
When you say this:
Christianity has a very large cross to bear. I have to dis-agree...Without Christianity we would not have the United States of America...
Without Christianity, would Slavery still exist?
It was the Quakers who were instrumental in ending Slavery...
However if it wasn’t for the Jewish People...Christianity would not exist and either would the United States of America...
“When the Angels appeared to Abraham, they were in the form of a human being, they even had the ability to eat food...”
Hi Tara. This is one most people get wrong (imho). Most people think one of the angels is god in the flesh or preincarnate Jsus. It actually isnt!
At the very begining, Abraham is visited by G-ds Shekinah or Presence...THEN the three angels (physically as men) appear. Each Angel has a specific task. The first one gives Sarah the message that she will have a child....then he takes off. Now, you have G-ds Shekinah present with the remaining two Angels and then they take off for Sodom to perform their tasks there. G-ds Shekinah was still present and they discussed the fate of Sodom.
So, Angels can be physical manifestions of men (Job wrestled one) These three ate. But G-d become a man? No All references of G-d having human like features are anthropomorphisms..An arm, feet, face, backside or even, wings. Two times...and when Torah tells you something twice...pay close attention!....in Deut 4, G-d says “You saw NO FORM...only a voice from the fire....So what ever you do, do NOT give me a form...anything in heaven or on earht, male or female...nada!
The only difference between the "protestant doctrine" and the "catholic doctrine" is a matter of chicken and egg timing.
They are BOTH man made.
I accept the Word of G-d as my gospel.
Without my Redeemer, I am not redeemed.
If you truly believe the Word. It states "The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us." Yeshua was put through a human food processor to scatter his physical body throughout this world. Every breath you take, bite you eat, drink you drink, has the possibility and probability, to contain molecules used by, or of, our Savior.
He Lives! For Everyone. That is His doctrine.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.