Posted on 07/10/2012 6:20:20 PM PDT by LouAvul
What if this story were, however; a passerby sees a child; running from a pond; with 'foot flapping'/blood flying; and then found out; that it was not a 'machete' - as he assumed - but an alligator; that had bitten off the child's foot? Or; his foot was ripped off; because he caught it, in a rock, as he tumbled down a hill?
We might ask; 'how could God allow it; but we would not wait; too long; for an answer. We would accept it, as a part of life. We might; on occasion; blame ourselves, for our misfortune.
Do think; pain and suffering; our first 'figure/ground' of life. We are always challenging the presence of 'suffering' in our world; but seldom do we ask; what our world would be, without it? Would Life's mystery be solved; or might we find life; still a mystery?
(Where might we be; without the sufferings of Moses; of Jesus? Christians are 'taught' - brought to - an understanding of God's love; through their visiting the sacrifice and sufferings of Jesus.)
* Without 'suffering'; how else to appreciate the 'Divine'; a Creator; the 'escape'; the reward; to a heavenly peace' - or return - save from a world; where there IS suffering.
For some; if nothing else; we come into the world; in a 'pain and suffering' (and hence; we so honor our parents); and we leave it by same. We need motivation; to come; and to leave. Suffering provides it.
Somehow, I have the feeling you may be something special in the making.
I have a great deal to learn...I feel I’ve been robbed of instruction thus far in my long life. But, I’m experiencing an awakening (with help) and am watching world events that are, at the same time terrifying and wonderful. Many early prophets, I’ve heard, wished to be living in the times we are living in.
Your posts make me feel there may be more to you than what YOU may even think is within you. Maybe you’re being primed?
Your interest in this thread makes me feel good about you.
We also lost a son (hmm he would’ve been eleven this year) prior to birth. I was given a wonderful short title ‘why do bad things happen to good people’. The author had dealt with similar pain and spoke of many if the same issues addressed in this thread. It has been some time since I last read it. I believe the author was Jewish but it translated to my Christianity with ease and no need for wrangling meanings. I recommend it and offer my condolences for your loss. God bless you and keep you and yours.
Wow! Praise God...very happy for you. Heading to bed right now, but I'll be keeping you in my prayers.
Praise the Lord!!!!! Yes, find a bible believing church. I’ll be praying for you
That passage is inscribed upon the headstone of an uncle I never met, killed at age seventeen, in an automobile accident. It's a family graveyard, so I see it fairly frequently. The love and the pain and the faith, all rolled into one, is breathtaking. It never fails to move me. It was a new car he was killed in, such a pretty '55 Chevy or so I always heard it described, a birthday present.
And Job also said, "Though he slay me, yet will I trust in Him." (Job 13:15)
You really made the point when you said, "We have to trust that God knows best.". We also know that God does what is good and right even when we cannot see the good or the right in a situation. It boils down to what are our choices:
1. God doesn't exist, all is chaos and nothing has meaning.
2. God is evil and enjoys the suffering of his creation.
3. God is good and all that He allows to happen has a purpose for good.
So, we have to make a choice. If we believe that God is good, then we also must accept that He has a purpose, a plan, a reason for allowing suffering to happen. When we are assured of that, then we can step out in faith and trust that, Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? (Gen. 18:25)
God's ways are not our ways, and His thoughts are not our thoughts. We have to be able to trust that He has a higher purpose in all things and we may not be able, at this time, to understand what that plan is, but we CAN trust Him to do what is right and that, I have learned, is enough.
But God IS omnipotent and He created all that is. Nothing exists that He did not create, therefore, doesn't He have the right to make all the "rules"? Let me ask you this, do YOU think some people deserve an eternal punishment? Are there people that have done things so horrible that they need to be punished forever for it?
This is one interpretation about what the bible says about Hell that might address your question.
http://www.tlc.org/sermons/1231/questions-about-hell/
The video is probably about 40 minutes long. The first minute of the video is church announcements but the rest is the question of Hell.
Oh I realize that posting a blind link is not terribly helpful. Sorry, I’ll try to elaborate.
The church is a non-denominational church in California (Kalifornia?). The part of the video I found most interesting in relationship to your posts had to do with the right each of us has to make a choice. God won’t force us to choose him. God doesn’t want people to choose life apart from him (i.e., hell). There isn’t a monster side of God that wants to ‘burn people forever’ nor, in this interpretation, is hell what popular culture says it is.
uh and this is the last of my three posts to you - sorry for my verbosity. At the 15 minute mark in the vid - the speaker begins to translate the terminology used to describe hell in the bible.
If you think about it, the problem is one of time. There doesn't seem to be enough time in a human life to "deserve" the "punishment" some people have to endure. Especially concerning children who suffer.
The answer to this paradox, traditionally, across the globe, is karma and reincarnation.
The idea being that you're not your body - you're a soul, which God give a body, over and over and over again, unitl you get it right.
Upside, is this makes sense of all the apparently unfair duffering in the world, AND creates a situation where everyone, sooner or later, reaches heaven - which supports the idea of a God of infinite love who will not - ultimately - let any of His children fail.
Downside?
This theory undermines the authority of the Church, and the threat of permanent hell forever.
Many research sources support the idea that reincarnation was a part of the early Church, and that Jesus taught it: Reincarnation and the Bible.
On the other hand, eight hundred years ago the Catholic Church slaughtered a half-million people to eradicate the "heresy" of gnosticism, which included reincarnation, and to this day will stick it's chin out and assert that every single one of of those people deserved to die at the point of a sword because of their reincarnational beliefs (among other things).
Go ahead, research this - challenge a Catholic on gnostic reincarnation, and thank God the Constitution prevents them from being in charge of what happens to you.
So decide for yourself.
Sorry friend, people can’t make something up even if they want it to be true. God has a plan and He has revealed it.
Read Hebrews 9:23
Catechism of the Catholic Church
paragraph 1013
Death is the end of man’s earthly pilgrimage, of the time of grace and mercy which God offers him so as to work out his earthly life in keeping with the divine plan, and to decide his ultimate destiny. When “the single course of our earthly life” is completed,586 we shall not return to other earthly lives: “It is appointed for men to die once.”587 There is no “reincarnation” after death.
Also sometimes the only way some people are saved is through pain. And the pain her, now, is nothing compared to an eternity of separation from God. Not everyone responds the same way, some people need pain to come to God. These are also opportunities for others to minister to those in pain as well.
In a fallen world people’s bodies are not physically perfect. There are genetic diseases, allergies, bad eyes. Pregnancies that don’t come to term. Women who die in childbirth. Dads who are killed in war never seeing their firstborn.
Parents who lose a child gain an glimpse of what God the Father went through losing His Son, never before being separated from Him. I think in part it helps us to ponder just exactly what God and Jesus went through for us, the pain of this loss, the ordeal of the cross on the Godhead. In this way maybe serving to make us sympathize more with God, maybe growing closer to Him. /also knowing like David, that we one day will see this child again in heaven.
Why do you think it’s God who’s torturing these people. He’s the one that sustains them. Why don’t you put the blame for their condition on people, not god? Tin pot dictators who could alleviate conditions but don’t?
Without suffering and death, our thoughts would never have to become focused on what God means to us and whether we will embrace him.
How wonderful! How special! I got saved Oct. 24, 1985...remember that day like it was yesterday. All my best to you in finding a good Bible teaching church and in growing spiritually.
God does not force anyone to choose Him. He made us like Him, as people, with free will to make choices uncoerced.
If a person doesn’t choose Him, and dies, God respects that person’s choice and will not force that person to be around Him. There is a place that person goes to that is totally separate from God. And it’s not a pleasant place.
And these people get plenty of warning. People tell them, the bible tells them, TV pastors broadcast this, and also give invitations to people to receive JEsus as their Lord and Savior. The gospel is everywhere. It is hardly hidden and tucked away. The beauty of God’s solution is that it is the same for everyone, nobody has it harder than anyone else. Nobody has any more of a difficult time being saved than anyone else.
No it doesn’t work.
You ought to know why it doesn’t work that way, and I believe you do know why it doesn’t work that way.
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