are you aware the title of your thread is also a book on the same subject by C.S.Lewis???
Posted on 07/10/2012 6:20:20 PM PDT by LouAvul
I saw a vid of children butchered by rival african tribes. One child was fleeing with her foot flopping on a broken bone.
In a book called "Have Atheists Proved There Is No God", the author discusses the problem of pain and the existence of God.
In light of innocents suffering, how would you explain this paradox? Free will? The fall of man?
I have said before, I love and get angry at God.
If one of my kids was hurting one of my other kids, they’d PAY.
Why is it not so with us?
Pain is a survival tool. It makes one take action.
Where did you come up with the notion that pain in and of itself is a bad thing?
Certainly not from either even a rudimentary understanding of biology, or religions.
God told us in the beginning of the Bible that sin and evil have entered the world. He also told us who is responsible for it.
The child with the flopping foot is suffering due to the sin of mankind. Not because of any evil in God.
When we see or are made aware of a little bit of some of the results of sin in the world, we get just the slightest bit of awareness of how bad sin is.
A main part of the evil of sin is, it makes the innocent suffer. If just the evildoers suffered due to their sin, all we would have is “justice.”
When we yell at our wife, put ourselves first, clock out early, hate somebody, take the biggest piece of pie, falsely accuse someone - or when we just fail to do the right thing, like go along with a dirty joke or let our kids cuss or look the other way when someone is hurting. . . we don’t feel so bad. We’d like to continue these and all other other sins, yet have no evil in the world. Can’t happen. Sin and evil go together.
But then think of the girl with the flopping foot. The sin we treat so casually in our lives is part of the cause of that.
Why doesn’t God just cancel the world and thus end the suffering? He could have, but he so far has not. He says because of His mercy. Yes, it is more merciful to have the flopping foot than for everyone left to get cast into hell.
Suppose God ended the world the day before that poor child was so mutilated. She’d have avoided that, and hopefully even found herself in heaven on the Judgment Day. But what about people who found repentance yesterday, or today? They wouldn’t have made it. They’d be in hell forever. Which is worse, although we don’t like to think about it, than suffering the way that child did.
The world will end when the last of those who will repent of their sins, repents. Then that’s it. Harvest time.
No flopping feet in heaven. God HAS brought an end to all suffering. The fulness of time just hasn’t come yet. We are all impatient but keep sinning anyway. And still God has mercy.
Another great book is “Where is God When it Hurts” by Phillip Yancey. Talks about spiritual, physical, and emotional pain.
http://www.amazon.com/Where-Is-God-When-Hurts/dp/0310214378
Thanks for that perspective.
I got saved last week. It’s thanks to Freepers and how calm and nice (MOST) of them are changed my atheist tendancies, so I get your part about those who later become saved.
Maybe God wants you (and me) to do something about it.
This is stupid!
We live in a cursed fallen world due to the sin of man; quit blaming God.
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I have no trouble understanding, and accepting as rational, the argument that this type of suffering does not rule out the existence of an omnipotent, loving God.
What I don’t understand, or accept as rational, the notion that an God who is described as loving and merciful could torture billions of people forever and ever without end. Only a monster could do that.
The most beautiful people are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity, and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, and a deep loving concern. Beautiful people do not just happen.”
But pain insists upon being attended to. God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: it is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world. —C.S. Lewis
What you say is logical, true, and reaffirming of God. But, how do we explain miscarriage? This question is not from a nonbeliever, but from someone who has lost two. C.S. Lewis does not touch on this one painful event.
Sorry, so many words, but the paradox and doubts remain.
If you accept that God has empowered man with completely free will, that must include the abillity to turn away from Him for all eternity. He sent His Son to give us very precise instructions as to how to choose Him, and to advise us of the consequences of rejecting Him. Nonetheless, He empowers every human with that choice.
Just a couple of days ago, I watched a DVD called “Machine Gun Preacher” and at first thought it would be stupid... then it was interesting. It is a true story.
i am not a theologian. but do you really think God doesn’t feel pain? do you think Jesus felt pain on the cross? how much pain would one have to suffer in order to atone for the sins of the world. what kind of pain does one feel when a life’s work is spoiled before your very eyes? how does God feel, especially when He looks out upon satan’s ruin of His “very good” creation? how much pain do we feel for God when we look at the abominations and crimes that others (like atheists) are commiting against His creation.
pain, in my estimation, is a very great gift from God. imagine that we could feel absolutely no pain. what kind of creature would we be? we are so blessed, even in our suffering, to have been created in His image.
are you aware the title of your thread is also a book on the same subject by C.S.Lewis???
Spank a child for ten seconds, and you are a loving parent. Spank a child for ten minutes, and you are a jerk.
Spank a child for ten days, and you are a raving monster.
Burn billions of people forever, for making the incorrect “choice” and you are a loving, merciful God. I get it.
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