[dartuser]

the identity of the elders is of no consequence

Not only is the identity of the elders of great consequence, but the timeframe for this scene in heaven is of critical importance. You yourself claim that these are mediators for your prayers ... dont you think you better be sure they are up there listening? Dont you want to know who you are communicating with?

Let me give you a hint: ... The 24 elders whom you are praying to are not there yet, because Revelation 5 has not happened yet!

Now answer my questions: 1) Is Jesus God? 2) Did Mary give birth to him?

We all know Many Catholics think ... that a Protestants refusal to answer these simple questions is because protestants know that this proves that Mary is the Mother of God,

Not really, what we object to is the gross logic that goes like ...

1. Jesus is God
2. Mary gave birth to Him
3. Mary was the mother of God
4. And because she is the mother of God, that implies she was immaculately conceived, lived a sinless life, remained a virgin, assumed bodily into heaven, is now the Queen of Heaven, Co-redemptrix, performs miracles, gives visions, appears to little children, ... and on and on and on ...

Yes, Jesus is God ... and yes, Mary gave birth to him ... and that makes Mary Jesus' mother. Duh ... your mom gave birth to you ... therefore she is your mother.

This is not some kind of mystical revelation that is suppose to reorder my interpretation of the Scriptures. Mary is the mother of Jesus just like your mom is the mother of you. She gave birth to you. I acknowledge that you are not God so yes there is a difference; an angel didn't come to your mom and make a pronouncement to her that she was giving birth to you in 9 months.

Mary was God's obedient servant ... like Moses, like Daniel, like Jeremiah, like John the Baptist, like Peter, like Paul ... they all did what God instructed them to do ... and because of her obedience she still is called blessed.

But all these other things that have been made up about her ... they all go way beyond the text of the Scriptures.

Last chance on the elder question ... my patience is up.

[aruanan]

1. Jesus is God
2. Mary gave birth to Him
3. Mary was the mother of God

"But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?"
--Elizabeth, cousin of Mary, wife of a Jewish priest.

To whom would a wife of a Jewish priest be referring, especially in the context established by the gospel writer, when she said, "my Lord"?

[verga]

Let me give you a hint: ... The 24 elders whom you are praying to are not there yet, because Revelation 5 has not happened yet! And your proof is whqat exactly? Seriously you have made this bold proclamation, yet have given no evidence. Given that you beleive in SS my interpretation is at least as valid as yours.

Last chance on the elder question ... my patience is up.

I would hope that this means you will drop this but I seriiously doubt it.