Posted on 07/02/2012 6:30:14 AM PDT by Cronos
I want to thank Archbishop William E. Lori for reminding me once again why I'm an ex-Catholic ("Fight for freedom," June 27). With the so-called "Fortnight for Freedom," the church leadership is deliberately and cynically using a mixture of patriotism and religion in a blatant and manipulative attempt to influence the outcome of the upcoming elections.
I can't seem to recall any recent news about Catholic churches being bombed in the United States or attempts to bar American Catholics from attending mass. I do know that the Catholic Church has been using its "religious freedom" for decades to aid and abet child abusers, to recently attack nuns in the United States who are at the forefront of what used to be one of the church's primary missions to aid and comfort the poor and needy, and that the American church has over the past few decades formed an alliance with some of the most strident and politically active right-wing religious groups in the U.S. Archbishop Lori even received an award in May from a coalition of some of those groups.
I am proud to be an American, and I am a strong supporter of the Bill of Rights. I support freedom of religion, and I support freedom from religion. And, at this moment in time, I am also very proud and happy to be an ex-Catholic.
Sandy Covahey, Baltimore
(Excerpt) Read more at baltimoresun.com ...
The titles given the son at Isa. 9:6 are quite fitting as Jesus was to act as a councelor and mighty god and father. As far back as Justin Martyr's time it was recognized that these titles applied to Christ did not make him THE Father or the one Almighty God.
Wrote Justin Martyr in his Dialog with Trypho:
“And when Isaiah calls Him the Angel of mighty counsel, did he not foretell Him to be the Teacher of those truths which He did teach when He came [to earth]? For He alone taught openly those mighty counsels which the Father designed both for all those who have been and shall be well-pleasing to Him”.
Is the Son the Father?
One of the great joys of the Christian religion is its simplicity so that the common man was attracted to it unlike the mystery religions of Pythagoras and other Greek philosophers.
Since Jesus went to great lengths to make sure his disciples understood what he taught by parables and examples of everyday life it seems odd that this so-called “central doctrine” has not a bit of explanation or discussion in the Scriptures.
” Jesus cannot be “a god” or even just “mighty god” and the Father Almighty God because Scripture uses those names for both the Father and the Son:”
John, in fact, calls Jesus “the only begotten god” at John 1:18.
Are you saying Jesus is the Father?
How does he receive these messages? Are they feelings? Impressions? Does he go into a trance? Hear voices in his head? Audibly?
What exactly is the mechanism by which these prophets you're so fond of receive their revelation and how do they discern the source, to verify they are not from the enemy?
Whose authority is he under and how does he hold himself accountable to avoid slipping into error?
Why should any one of us accept his so-called revelations?
John 14:8-118 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.
John 10:30 I and the Father are one.”
Met, also do note that this is the same kind of tripe that Quix would post...
Err.. stpio. I would like xone to become Catholic, but quoting this Kevin dude ain’t going to make that happen.
Quite frankly I've never understood the entire "Rapture" piece (the Harold Camping version, not the Blondie version -- the blondie version I get :) -- why get so obsessed about what's going to happen in the end-times? Be good, follow God and don't worry about tomorrow.
I also find these guys highly amusing, like Jerry Duplantis (youtube Jerry Duplantis visits heaven!) -- it's funny to watch....
Glad to hear the mangled text is not yours. But it is mangled nonetheless. The UBS has been on a bad trajectory for a long time . The NRSV is just one more manifestation that they ate abandoning verbal plenary inspiration as a cornerstone doctrine. Did you know that translation is one of the first new generation of politically correct bibles, where they are openly mistranslating male pronouns at every opportunity, just to avoid offending their liberal old line denominational pals?
As for john 1:3, what happened to you is the translators, after nearly two millennia, have finally decided to follow the Gnostic placement of the period. That moves the final ho gegonen to the beginning of the next sentence, which, BTW, renders verse 4 unintelligible, but hey, if you don’t believe every word is inspired, what’s a few garbled verses between friends.
It certainly didn’t bother the early gnostic editors who apparently were the first to recommend this punctuation. Chrysostom has happily recorded that it was recognized for the theologically motivated hack job it was as was rejected for that reason. I’d give you the quote but I’m tapping this out on my droid so maybe later.
As for firstborn, also need to do a longer response, but the short form is that there are two words in Greek that can be rendered as firstborn. One of these is constrained to our first in time notion in English, and this is used of Christ only in connection with his resurrection, not some alleged time of creation, which is good, because it prevents a contradiction with all those other passages which clearly make him eternal and uncreated. The other firstborn, when it is used of Christ and other subjects, again goes back to some form of primacy, but definitely not oriented toward first in time. More like first in authority, power, position of inheritance, etc.
Anyway, more later. Doing this with the droid is like boxing in a straightjacket. :)
Peace,
SR
I do recognize it. There are other FReeprs who post like trash as threads.
I don’t show them any mercy either.
I don’t accept as valid any pronouncements from self-proclaimed prophets.
God has told us all we need to know in Scripture. If people aren’t going to obey that, then what’s the point of giving them mormrevelation that they’re not going to obey either?
My opinion is that if it doesn’t line up with Scripture then it’s clearly from the enemy and not to be considered.
If it does line up with Scripture, it’s redundant and not needed. I am then suspect of the motivation of the person putting themselves forth as something special, that they’re doing it only for the attention.
Two words are “protokos”, #4416, and “monogenes”, #3439.
Protokos is used at Col. 1:15-18 twice and seems to include a ranking as to importance as Paul calls Christ the “firstborn” from the dead. Others were resurrected before him but like Lazarus they died later. Christ was resurrected to a life like none before him hence rank in importance and time.
Momogenes is used at John 1:18 to mean only one, “only begotten god”, so not quite the same.
“John 10:30 I and the Father are one.”
In John 17:20-26 Jesus, in prayer, notes how he and his Father are one. It is in the way he prays for his followers to be one with Jesus. Father, Son, followers all in union as one.
Do you then think Jesus, the Son is saying he is God the Father at John 14:8-11?
And he most likely is. Only time will tell.
The problem I have with your prophetic posts is the apparent lack of any objective standard. Your posting history suggests you fancy yourself a seer of sorts and you have posted about membership in a yahoo seer group. It seems to me, anyway, that you put more stock in the self proclaimed prophet de jour than you do on Scripture and the Catechism. Do not be surprised when no one takes you or them very seriously.
Peace be with you
he stated Kevin was a false prophet...
“And he most likely is. Only time will tell.
The problem I have with your prophetic posts is the apparent lack of any objective standard. Your posting history suggests you fancy yourself a seer of sorts and you have posted about membership in a yahoo seer group. It seems to me, anyway, that you put more stock in the self proclaimed prophet de jour than you do on Scripture and the Catechism. Do not be surprised when no one takes you or them very seriously.”
~ ~ ~
I NEVER ever said I was a seer. I share the messages from Heaven, they are a help for the times which the Catechism states.
“Only time will tell”, why? There was nothing prophetic in the paragraph from the message. The words Jesus stated to Kevin have been believed for 2000 years by Catholics. Jesus is helping Protestants recognize their heresies are lies. The Remnant is Roman Catholic, it’s there in Scripture and Prophecy. Arguing over the Truth is useless, instead, non-Catholics should ask questions about Catholicism, let Catholics explain their misunderstandings and pray for a change of heart, asking God to help them believe the faith. He is going to show the world, every person on the earth very soon in the prophesied Great Warning (Rev 6:15-17).
Natural Law, I posted three Scripture verses to show “Faith Alone” is false so I am not ignoring Scripture, no response, Protestants wouldn’t touch them. That’s why I posted the message to Kevin Barrett.
There is a good part to the Net, remember, when the Word is preached world wide. Prophecy is God’s Word made explicit. There aren’t that many current present day prophets so why reject them?
I wish everyone would sign up for Yahoo Groups, to read Seers 2. It can’t hurt you. A direct link is http://www.catholicbinder.com/ The messages from Heaven confirm Scripture and the Catechism. Protestants should do the same, check the Protestant sites with their messages. Here is one. http://ft111.com/eagles.htm
blessings,
“Err.. stpio. I would like xone to become Catholic, but quoting this Kevin dude ain’t going to make that happen.”
~ ~ ~
True, I’ve learned. Protestants reading the thread never came against the message itself. How many days later...tee hee.
Which is decidedly NOT true that there has been no response. All anyone has to do is read through the thread to see that your challenge has been accepted and answered.
For my part, that is posts 182, 431, and 478.
Others can point to their own posts.
So whose interpretaton of the prophecies are we to accept?
What is this now?
No YOPIOS but YOPIOP?
How do you know that you’re interpreting it correctly? The Catholic church teaches against one’s own personal interpretation of Scripture. How then, can one’s own personal interpretation of prophecy be acceptable?
Son, anyone claiming to receive direct communications from Jesus, especially in this kind of manner and form, and communicating it in such fashion usually winds up either drinking the koolaid or handing it out.
The only private revelation to be avoided, rejected, is private revelation CONDEMNED by the Church. Too bad, very sad rejecting prophecy, your own messengers. The time ahead is going to be confusing.
Negative. The only private revelation to avoided and rejected is that not accepted by the Church. The Church procedures are over a millennium old and guess what? they work. They just take time. The Church ponders because they wish to get it right.
Your yapping yahoo claims all kinds of revelation and communication from Christ. I put on hip waders and wandered into his swamp briefly. Enough to convince me.
I don't care what Protestants celebrate. I do care what the Church tells us is the Truth and the Faith. If you follow Barrett rather than the Catechism, what does say about your faith?
I defer to the RM on this one; there are more direct descriptors.
If you are truly Catholic, you would stand up for what was stated in that one prophetic paragraph, it was Catholic. Instead, you are following the Protestants, helping their rejection of the faith. Jesus rejects “Faith Alone” more than once and very simply.
Simply coinciding with a particular Catholic belief, but arriving at the justification of that belief in a manner forbidden by the Church is most certainly not Catholic. A stopped clock is correct twice per day, after all.
For one thing, the manner in which it was claimed to be obtained. We had an idiot on FR that posted as if he spoke for God as well for a while and was soundly and rightly lambasted for it. Your particular idiot appears to have a similar mindset.
In spite of our differences, we do agree on much.
It also appears that pio doesn’t consider you a Catholic either.
Try to imagine how much I care. :)
It’s ironic because at this point, I don’t consider him a Catholic either. There’s simply no solid evidence of such.
There is enough evidence presented to create a pretty solid impression.
...as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
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