Posted on 07/02/2012 6:30:14 AM PDT by Cronos
I want to thank Archbishop William E. Lori for reminding me once again why I'm an ex-Catholic ("Fight for freedom," June 27). With the so-called "Fortnight for Freedom," the church leadership is deliberately and cynically using a mixture of patriotism and religion in a blatant and manipulative attempt to influence the outcome of the upcoming elections.
I can't seem to recall any recent news about Catholic churches being bombed in the United States or attempts to bar American Catholics from attending mass. I do know that the Catholic Church has been using its "religious freedom" for decades to aid and abet child abusers, to recently attack nuns in the United States who are at the forefront of what used to be one of the church's primary missions to aid and comfort the poor and needy, and that the American church has over the past few decades formed an alliance with some of the most strident and politically active right-wing religious groups in the U.S. Archbishop Lori even received an award in May from a coalition of some of those groups.
I am proud to be an American, and I am a strong supporter of the Bill of Rights. I support freedom of religion, and I support freedom from religion. And, at this moment in time, I am also very proud and happy to be an ex-Catholic.
Sandy Covahey, Baltimore
(Excerpt) Read more at baltimoresun.com ...
I'm sorry for having to ping you to this thread, but I thought it only fair to let you know that you were being accused of something without you knowing about it. I am more than happy to explain my beliefs. As to the Scriptures affirming the existance of the Triune God-head, the Trinity, one of the better sites that does a good job of this is http://www.layevangelism.com/qreference/chapter10.htm. They start out by saying:
The Trinity
Isaiah 48:16 "Come near to Me, listen to this: from the first I have not spoken in secret, from the time it took place, I was there, and now Adonai-Yehovah has sent Me and His Spirit." [Indication of the Son and the Holy Spirit being a person & the Trinity] (John 18:20, Jesus said this referred to Him; John 13:19, 14:29)
Matthew 3:16-17 "And after being baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, ‘This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.’" (Luke 3:21-22)
Matthew 28:18-20 "And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, ‘All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you, and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.’"
Ephesians 5:18-20 "And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit, speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord; always giving thanks for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father."
1 Peter 1:2 "According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in fullest measure."
1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one."
Jude 20-21 "But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith; praying in the Holy Spirit; keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life."
Hebrews 1:8 "But of the Son He says, ‘Your throne, O God [Elohim, !yhiloa>], is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of Your kingdom.’"
Psalm 45:6 "Your throne, O Elohim, is forever and ever, a scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom." (Jesus is Elohim)
2 Timothy 1:2 "Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord." (The Father is God)
Philippians 2:10-11 "that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is aAdonai, to the glory of God the Father." (From Isaiah 45:21-23. Jesus is Yehovah)
Isaiah 45:21-23 "Declare and set forth your case; indeed, let them consult together. Who has announced this from of old? Who has long since declared it? Is it not I, Yehovah? And there is no other Elohim besides Me, a righteous El and a Savior; there is none except Me. Turn to Me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am El, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself, the word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness and will not turn back, that to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance." (Phil 2:10-11, Jesus is Yehovah)
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God [qeo;" h\\n oJ logo"]. And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us." (Jesus is God)
John 1:18 "No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him." (This means that the appearances of Yehovah God in the O.T. are not the Father, but Jesus-Yehovah, Genesis 18:1, because no one has ever seen the Father)
Genesis 18:1 "Now Yehovah appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day." (Jesus appeared to him, John 1:18)
Acts 5:3-4 "But Peter said, ‘Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back some of the price of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men, but to God.’" (The Holy Spirit is God)
Isaiah 40:13-18 "Who has directed [Spirit-Yehovah, hw:hy]Aj'Wr] Ruach- Yehovah, Or as His counselor has informed Him? With whom did He consult and who gave Him understanding? And who taught Him in the path of justice and taught Him knowledge, and informed Him of the way of understanding?. . . . To whom then will you liken El? Or what likeness will you compare with Him?" (The Holy Spirit is Yehovah)
Isaiah 64:8 "But now, Yehovah, You are our-Father, we are the clay, and You our potter; and all of us are the work of Your-hand." (The Father is Yehovah)
John 1:1-3 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. This One was in the beginning with God. All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being." (Jesus is God in the flesh)
Colossians 1:15-18 "And He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created by Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the first-born from the dead; so that He Himself might come to have first place in everything." (Jesus is Yehovah-Creator)
Hebrews 1:3 "And He is the reflected-brightness of His glory and the exact-image of His essence, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high." (Jesus is God)
Job 33:4 "Ruach-Elohim has made me, And the breath of the Almighty gives me life." (The Holy Spirit is Elohim)
Job 26:13 ""By His Spirit [j’Wr] the heavens are made-brightly-beautiful [hr;p]vi]; His hand has pierced the fleeing serpent." (The Holy Spirit is Creator-Yehovah)
1 Thessalonians 1:10 "and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who delivers us from the wrath to come." (The Father raises from the dead)
John 6:44 "No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day." (Jesus raises from the dead)
John 11:25-26 "I am the Resurrection and the Life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die." (Jesus raises from the dead)
Romans 8:11 "But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you." (The Holy Spirit raises from the dead)
1 Kings 8:27 "But will Elohim indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You, how much less this house which I have built!" (The Father is everywhere)
Matthew 28:20 "Lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." (Jesus is everywhere)
Psalm 139:7 "Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence?" (The Holy Spirit is everywhere)
2 Corinthians 6:16 "Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, "I will dwell in them and walk among them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people." (The Father dwells in us)
Ephesians 4:6 "One God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all."
1 John 2:23 "Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also."
2 John 1:9 "Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son." (Jesus dwells in us)
Revelation 3:20 "Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if any one hears My voice and opens the door, I will come into him, and will dine with him, and he with Me."
Colossians 1:27 "To whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory."
2 Corinthians 13:5 "Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test?"
John 14:17 "That is the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you." (The Holy Spirit indwells us)
1 Corinthians 6:19 "Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?"
1 John 3:20 "God is greater than our heart, and knows all things." (The Father knows all things)
John 16:30 "Now we know that You know all things." (Jesus knows all things)
1 Corinthians 2:10-11 "For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man, which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God." (The Holy Spirit knows all things)
1 Thessalonians 5:23 "Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely." (The Father Sanctifies us)
1 Corinthians 1:30 "But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification, and redemption" (Jesus Sanctifies us)
Hebrews 2:11 "For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren."
Hebrews 10:10 "By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."
1 Peter 1:2 "According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood" (The Holy Spirit Sanctifies us)
Genesis 2:7 "Then Yehovah Elohim formed man of dust from the-ground, and breathed into his-nostrils the breath of lives; and man became-a-living soul." (The Father gives life)
John 1:3 "All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being." (Jesus gives life)
John 5:21 "For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes."
John 6:63 "It is the Spirit who creates-life, the flesh profits nothing."
2 Corinthians 3:5-6 "Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter, but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit creates-life." (The Holy Spirit gives life)
1 John 1:3 "What we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, that you also may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ." (We have fellowship with the Father & the Son)
1 Corinthians 1:9 "God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord." (We have Fellowship with Jesus)
2 Corinthians 13:14 "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all." (We have Fellowship with the Holy Spirit)
Psalm 90:2 "Before the mountains were born, or You did give birth to the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, You are El." (The Father is from eternity)
Micah 5:2 "But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, from the days of eternity." (Jesus is from eternity)
John 8:58 "Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born I AM.’"
Hebrews 9:14 "How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" (The Holy Spirit is from eternity)
Luke 22:42 "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Your’s be done." (The Father & the Son have a will)
1 Corinthians 12:11 "But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills." (The Holy Spirit has a will)
Matthew 3:17 "And behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, ‘This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.’" (The Father speaks)
Luke 5:20 "And seeing their faith, He said, ‘Friend, your sins are forgiven you.’" (Jesus speaks)
Luke 7:48 "And He said to her, ‘Your sins have been forgiven.’"
Acts 8:29 "And the Spirit said to Philip, ‘Go up and join this chariot.’" (The Holy Spirit speaks)
Acts 11:12 "And the Spirit told me to go with them without misgivings."
Acts 13:2 "And while they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, ‘Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.’"
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life." (The Father loves us)
Ephesians 5:25 "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her." (Jesus loves us)
Romans 15:30 "Now I urge You, brethren, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God for me." (The Holy Spirit loves us)
Jeremiah 17:10 "I, Yehovah, search the heart, I test the mind, even to give to each man according to his ways, according to the results of his deeds." (The Father searches our hearts)
Revelation 2:23 "I am He who searches the reins and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds." (Jesus searches the heart, thus claiming Jer 17:10 for Himself)
1 Corinthians 2:10 "For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God." (The Holy Spirit searches our hearts)
Psalm 24:1 "The earth is Yehovah's, and all it contains; the world, and those who dwell in it." (We belong to the Father)
John 17:6 "I manifested Your name to the men whom You gave to Me out of the world. Your’s they were, and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word." (We belong to Jesus)
1 Corinthians 6:19-20 "Or do you not know that your body(We belong to the Holy Spirit)
Isaiah 43:10-11 "‘You are My witnesses,’ declares Yehovah, ‘And My servant whom I have chosen, in order that you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no El formed, and there will be none after Me. I, even I, am Yehovah; and there is no Savior besides Me.’" (The Father Claims to be Savior alone)
1 Timothy 1:1 "Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus according to the commandment of God our Savior, and of Christ Jesus, who is our hope."
1 Timothy 2:3 "This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior."
1 Timothy 4:10 "We have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers."
Matthew 1:21 "And she will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for it is He who will save His people from their sins. Now all this took place that what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet might be fulfilled, saying, ‘Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel,’ which translated means, ‘God with us.’" (Jesus is God in the flesh who saved us from our sins)
John 3:17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him. (Luke 9:56)
Luke 9:56 "For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them."
Titus 1:4 "Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior."
Titus 3:5-6 "He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior."
Romans 8:9 "But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him."
1 John 4:13 "By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit."
Ephesians 1:13-14 "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory." (The Holy Spirit is Given as assurance of our salvation in Jesus)
Matthew 4:10 "Then Jesus said to him, "Begone, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord Your God, and serve Him only.’" (Deut 6:13, 10:20, we serve the Father)"
Colossians 3:24 "It is the Lord Christ whom you serve." (We are serving Jesus)
John 6:63 "It is the Spirit who creates-life, the flesh profits nothing."
Romans 8:14 "For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." (we are led by and serve the Holy Spirit)
John 14:1 "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. (We are to believe in the Father & Jesus)
Matthew 12:31-32 "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come." (We are to believe in and obey the Holy Spirit)
Hebrews 3:7-8 "Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says, "Today if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts as when they provoked Me, as in the day of trial in the wilderness."
Psalm 16:11 "You will make known to me the path of life; in Your presence is fulness of joy; In Your right hand there are pleasures forever." (The Father gives joy)
John 15:11 "These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full." (Jesus gives us joy)
Romans 14:7 "For the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." (The Holy Spirit gives us joy)
John 12:48-50 "He who rejects me, and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me commandment, what to say, and what to speak. And I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me."
John 5:22-23 "For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, in order that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father, he who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him."
John 16:7-11 "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper shall not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin, and righteousness, and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you no longer behold Me; and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged."
The list above is not exhaustive. This link also discusses the common arguments against the Trinity, so I sincerely hope you will take a look at it as well as anyone else who wants to know why Christians believe in the Trinity. The early Christians DID believe in this truth, though it wasn't until the Council of Nicea that the doctrine was spelled out in a succinct way in a "creed". This was a human attempt to describe something that I don't think is humanly possible to fully understand but we DO have quite a lot of Scripture that proves it to be something God desires we know about Him. Even though we may not understand it all, it is another doctrine that is accepted by faith just like knowing we are saved by faith in Christ - and that we have eternal life through Him. We can know the truths about our faith because God has preserved those truths in Holy Scripture - and God does NOT change.
“(John 18:20, Jesus said this referred to Him; John 13:19, 14:29)”
Uhh, no he didn't. Read the verses.
Matt. 28, Eph. 5, and 1 Peter 1, Jude 20,21 speak of God, Christ and the holy spirit but say nothing of a trinity anymore than mentioning Abraham, Isaac and Jacob together makes them into a trinity of three persons in one.
“1 John 5:7 “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.”
This reading is spurious and never part of John's writing. Even the Catholic translators of the NAB recognize this and delete it.
Now I'm off to sleep but I'll continue later.
“The words of a false prophet are not from Jesus. The only words of Jesus we have are in Scripture and Kevin Barrett’s latter rain ramblings are not in the canon last I checked. Abstain from your false prophets and we can talk. Or if you must have your false prophet, I must kindly ask you to leave me out of it. I desire no part of the judgment that is coming against the false prophets of our time.”
Peace,
SR
~ ~ ~
You’re not going to reply to St. Ignatius quote about the Eucharist and those who deny it...or...James 2:24?
Why does one paragraph in the message to Kevin Barrett frighten anyone? No discussion of the words in the message, just denial. Actually, I don’t think you read it, Our Lord corrects to help, He said “he who does righteousness is righteous.” Romans 2:13 says the same. The one paragraph from the message is full of “canon.”
I don’t understand, sticking with creepy, er, some think saintly (LOL) Martin Luther, if you’re a believer of “Sola Fide”, he’s your guy. No, reject “faith alone.” With the help of God’s grace freely given, our faith in God is needed and so are our works to get to Heaven. Who can figure, Protestants have taken “false works” and mistakenly applied them to all “works.”
Romans 2:13
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the DOERS of the law shall be justified.
But you did you commend Cronos for the post mentioned: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2713145/posts?page=3453#3453
Yet,
Condemned articles of J. Hus:
20. If the pope is wicked, and especially if he is foreknown to damnation, then he is a devil like Judas the apostle, a thief and a son of perdition and is not the head of the holy church militant since he is not even a member of it. — Council of Constance, Condemnation of Errors, against Wycliffe http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Councils/ecum16.htm
But,
if ever at any time it shall appear that any Bishop, even if he be acting as an Archbishop, Patriarch or Primate; or any Cardinal of the aforesaid Roman Church, or, as has already been mentioned, any legate, or even the Roman Pontiff, prior to his promotion or his elevation as Cardinal or Roman Pontiff, has deviated from the Catholic Faith or fallen into some heresy:
i) the promotion or elevation, even if it shall have been uncontested and by the unanimous assent of all the Cardinals, shall be null, void and worthless;...
(iv) to any so promoted to be Bishops, or Archbishops, or Patriarchs, or Primates or elevated as Cardinals, or as Roman Pontiff, no authority shall have been granted, nor shall it be considered to have been so granted either in the spiritual or the temporal domain;
“(vi) those thus promoted or elevated shall be deprived automatically, and without need for any further declaration, of all dignity, position, honor, title, authority, office and power.”
(Cum ex Apostolatus Officio, http://sedevacantist.com/encyclicals/Paul04/cumex.html)
This is the basis for the sedevacantist rejection of recent popes, while other Catholics argue that the Pope has no judge, and is the sole judge of whether the judgment of the Cardinal that one is a formal heretic is correct.
“By Trinity we mean that there is only one God (Deuteronomy 6:4) consisting of one essence-substance, who is a Trinity of three individual Persons with independent intellect, emotions and will”.
Clearly the comments made on some of the Scriptures contradicts this very definition as the comment:
“(The Father is Yehovah)” and “ (The Holy Spirit is Yehovah)” and “(Phil 2:10-11, Jesus is Yehovah)”.
Never are the holy spirit and Jesus called Yehovah or Jehovah in the Scriptures, never. and the comments following the citations ignore how the agent of another person can be said to perform an action or the person themselves or both. As an example: “The president increased taxes” but the president didn't increase taxes, Congress did. Since they acted at his behest the action can be attributed to both or either one.
I'll go no further with this web site. It affirms nothing but is simply a collection of assertions without any reasoning involved.
And it most certainly does not disprove what I said about the Son being inferior to the Father (they are not the same even according the creeds) in the Scriptures.
You invite me to disobey Christ when you ask me to listen to a false prophet. Ask your RC friends. The canon is closed, both yours and mine. Ignatious is easy, and I would be happy discuss his wonderfully quote that you have taken out of context, but not if you continue to insist on pushing your false prophet, in which case there are specific instructions in Scripture that I must avoid you. I take Scripture seriously, not your countless red herrings, and certainly not your false prophets. You choose then. Conversation with me free of false prophets, or going our separate ways? It’s up to you.
We touched on it numerous times, I agree. I have no doubt that your beliefs on the Trinity are very comparable if not identical to the Catholic beliefs. However, I think that Cronos is commenting more on the repeated and continual seeming alliances of various antiCatholic forces rather than the stated beliefs of yourself in particular.
If you ally with non Trinitarians on certain Trinitarian debates, then you may be leaving yourself open to such commentary, I'm afraid. You know (hopefully) that I hold you in rather high regard, dear bb, but I think that you may be taking Cronos' post a tad askew.
Interesting, and SR, you just might have a point. Stpio, I have sent you a PM.
I don't accept your premise. Where you look for exact word for word translations of defining verses Catholicsm looks to the words and versus within the context the entire Gospel and Tradition of the Church. Where you look for either / or decisions, Catholicism sees "both / and".
I accept on faith the teachings of my Church and faith is the belief in things not known or not knowable. As St. Thomas Aquinas said; “We can't have full knowledge all at once. We must start by believing; then afterwards we may be led on to master the evidence for ourselves.” [but] “For those with faith, no evidence is necessary; for those without it, no evidence will suffice.”
There is no contesting that the early Church saw the Liturgy of the Eucharist as something more than symbolic and saw the Eucharist as the Real Body and Blood of Jesus. St. Thomas Aquinas did not invent transubstantiation, he simply articulated it. Likewise the Eastern Church applied the Greek word, "Metousiosis". It was a taxonomy of ideas, not the invention of concepts.
The idea of the change in the substance of the bread and wine did not come into being with the development of a Latin or Greek word. It came into being when Jesus said; "For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink." (John 6:55)
Peace be with you
-- there is no proof of that, especially on posts where there are anti-Trinitarians spouting their views against the "Catholic concept of the Trinity" and on those numerous occasions (links given above, on your request), the crew of non-c's say nothing about this member of their club who is a non-Trinitarian. it's almost as if the crew will accept unitarians, jehovah's Witnesses etc. as brothers in Christ as long as they join in the "dang caflix" approach.
shameful.
quite correct...
On the contrary there are no instances of that kind. You asked me for proof of my statements and I gave you links above. Now I ask you to provide proof for your statements... hint -- you'll find none... but I will give you the chance to search.
It is utterly shameful on the non-C part and it reduces their entire moral standing.
yes Mark.. multiple cohabiting does lead to psychological problems as well.....
yes NL.. multiple cohabiting does lead to psychological problems as well.....
it’s talking about Oneness Pentecostals and their rejection of the Trinity, which is weird, right, pnsm?
No need for me to “disown” him... He’s not c by the manner of his posts and also for a 3 month newbie the actions are strange... until proven otherwise, I would consider him/her as doubtful.
sexually active popes
The fish stinks from the head down, so there are sexually active priests. Wrong beliefs leads to decay.
Jesus said to his disciples: "Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come". Luke 17:1
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it."
Narrow gate: GOD'S Holy Spirit inspired WORD ALONE.
Annulment - where the catholic church says 'we married you and have witnesses that say you were married by us' but for money and some psychological therapy for your problems we can claim - because 'we can' - you were never married and the children you bore having sex during 'the marriage that never existed' is one of our mysteries and we condone it.
Catholicism - the land of make believe, the land absent of TRUTH.
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