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To: boatbums
In looking at your definition of the trinity:

“By Trinity we mean that there is only one God (Deuteronomy 6:4) consisting of one essence-substance, who is a Trinity of three individual Persons with independent intellect, emotions and will”.

Clearly the comments made on some of the Scriptures contradicts this very definition as the comment:

“(The Father is Yehovah)” and “ (The Holy Spirit is Yehovah)” and “(Phil 2:10-11, Jesus is Yehovah)”.

Never are the holy spirit and Jesus called Yehovah or Jehovah in the Scriptures, never. and the comments following the citations ignore how the agent of another person can be said to perform an action or the person themselves or both. As an example: “The president increased taxes” but the president didn't increase taxes, Congress did. Since they acted at his behest the action can be attributed to both or either one.

I'll go no further with this web site. It affirms nothing but is simply a collection of assertions without any reasoning involved.
And it most certainly does not disprove what I said about the Son being inferior to the Father (they are not the same even according the creeds) in the Scriptures.

286 posted on 07/14/2012 5:45:16 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
Clearly the comments made on some of the Scriptures contradicts this very definition as the comment: “(The Father is Yehovah)” and “ (The Holy Spirit is Yehovah)” and “(Phil 2:10-11, Jesus is Yehovah)”. Never are the holy spirit and Jesus called Yehovah or Jehovah in the Scriptures, never.

Let's look at the passage in Philippians 2:5-11

In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death — even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

There IS only ONE God. Do you believe this? This ONE, true God is the ONLY God and savior as Isaiah 44:6 says: "“This is what the Lord says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

The LORD God (Jehovah/Yahweh) is the first and the last, He is the Alpha and Omega just like Revelation 1:8 says: "“This is what the Lord says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

And because Jehovah is the beginning and end, the Alpha and Omega as He declares, and besides Him there is no other God OR Savior, then how can you explain in Revelation 22:12-17

"Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.” The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.

Jesus says HE is the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last. We know that Jesus is Almighty God INCARNATE - in the flesh. God became a man to redeem man back to himself. We do NOT believe in three Gods, but ONLY one God and because Scripture says that the Father is God, and Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, we therefore accept that God is revealed to us as THREE YET ONE. Just because it is a concept that is hard to grasp, does not mean it is not true. God told us it is so. People can refuse to believe that Jesus is God, but they cannot claim Scripture doesn't teach it.

As to an "inferior" status for Jesus, this is speaking of a hierarchy of authority or role, just as the husband is head of the wife, the Father is the head of Jesus and Jesus is the head of the church. But the husband and wife are STILL equal in the eyes of God. Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

There are many other Scriptures passages that speak to this truth. The Christian faith accepts the truth of the Triune nature of our God because God says it is the truth. I sincerely hope you will continue to discuss this very important tenet of our faith.

307 posted on 07/14/2012 2:53:35 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: count-your-change; metmom; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name; smvoice; HarleyD; HossB86; ...
I believe we had an exchange on this before, but Jesus name is based on the Latin Iesus, of the Greek Ἰησοῦς (Iēsoûs), itself a hellenization of the Aramaic/Hebrew ישוע‎ (Yēšûă‘) which is a post-Exilic modification of the Hebrew יְהוֹשֻׁעַ‎ (Yĕhōšuă‘, Joshua) under influence from Aramaic.[30][31]

He is clearly revealed to be God, explicitly and implicitly, , being ontologically one with the Father, (Jn. 5:18) and God manifest in the flesh, (1Tim. 3:16) and the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, (Heb. 1:3), who is called God, (Jn. 1:1; 20:28; Heb. 1:8) with the Holy Spirit also attributing to Him many texts which in the O.T. were ascribed to God, as well as uniquely Divine attributes, titles and glory, as shown here.

And the same conclusion is reached as regards the Holy Spirit, which is well set forth here. Both conclusions are required to reconcile Scripture with itself in its progressive revelation.

And rather than the Son being a created subcontractor in creating all things, (Jn. 1:2; Col. 1:16) "all things" would include Himself, and in no place is creative activity ascribed to any created thing. Rather, "Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself." (Isaiah 44:24)

As for Jesus being inferior, subordinationism in its heretical form is that the Son is inferior in nature to the Father, as not being God.

However, there is an order in the Godhead, and in this order the Father is the head, (1Cor. 11:3) who made His Son" both Lord (functionally) and Christ, (Acts 2:36 and thus judge of living and the dead, working by the Holy Spirit. And who "must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet." "And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. " (1 Corinthians 15:25,28)

In which the Son shall be as He was before His incarnation, not reigning as the Lord but as the Divine Son of God nonetheless.

Rome accepts a relational subordinationism of Son to the Father, and we concur in the CCC (1050 ) statement, that "true and subsistent life consists in this: the Father, through the Son and in the Holy Spirit, pouring out his heavenly gifts on all things without exception."

316 posted on 07/14/2012 5:01:11 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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