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The hidden exodus: Catholics becoming Protestants
NCR ^ | Apr. 18, 2011 | Thomas Reese

Posted on 05/17/2012 5:40:57 PM PDT by Gamecock

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To: stpio

God freely lavishes His grace on us. There’s no Scripture that says that grace is dispensed in packets called sacraments.


841 posted on 05/30/2012 4:10:48 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: boatbums

“It isn’t “my” way at all! What does God say? It appears that no matter how many times the canard is disputed that “Protestant” denominationalism means thousands of different interpretations of Scripture, people such as you refuse to hear it and actually think about and throw it up at every opportunity. It is intellectually dishonest and those who use it - even after being corrected - prove that they have no genuine interest in dialog and only participate to try to get the better of another. When comments such as yours start being ignored, you will know why.”

~ ~ ~

Okay, then explain why God speaks of oneness of belief
in Scripture?

Explain Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one Faith, one Baptism


842 posted on 05/30/2012 4:12:20 PM PDT by stpio
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To: daniel1212
Good points! And I'll bet NONE of the people who heard those words needed ten pages of explanation about what was really meant. Simple object lessons anyone can understand.
843 posted on 05/30/2012 4:17:25 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: metmom
"Not one Catholic I’ve ever met was sure of making it to heaven."

There is always the hope of Salvation. I am absolutely sure that many, many of the Catholics I have known have made it. I am equally sure that more than a few of the Protestants I have know who brashly proclaimed their own Salvation fell short. The truth of such things is known only to God.

Peace be to you.

844 posted on 05/30/2012 4:57:28 PM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: stpio
“Sorry daniel, without Mary’s free will cooperation with
God in the plan of redemption we would not have been
redeemed, Jesus would not of become a human person.”

The actions or lack thereof of a young Jewish girl would hardly stop or frustrate the will of the Almighty from being accomplished.

“Mary of course, in a much greater way. ~Co-~ means WITH.”

Actually the prefix “co” indicates a partnership or joint participation as in “co-owner, co-editor” etc.

Mary didn't do any redeeming or buying back of mankind nor could she.

845 posted on 05/30/2012 5:05:37 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change; stpio
"Actually the prefix “co” indicates a partnership or joint participation as in “co-owner, co-editor” etc."

When is this nonsense going to stop? The Church declares that in its doctrines Mary is the Co-redemptrix and then very specifically and unambiguously defines the term. Then some non-Catholics jump in and say "no that isn't what you mean!".

Such comments aren't even worth refuting, especially when the offer has been made numerous times to explain the teaching and the offenders have opted for continued ignorance. I do pity them and pray that the gift of wisdom and understanding be given them if not the gift of knowledge. I also pray that I get the gift of patience to continue to suffer the fools.

Peace be with you.

846 posted on 05/30/2012 5:22:55 PM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: Natural Law
There is always the hope of Salvation.

There's the certainty, unless you want to try to tell us that the Apostle John lied to us.

1 John 5:9-15 9 If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater, for this is the testimony of God that he has borne concerning his Son. 10 Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. 11 And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life. 14 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him.

Or perhaps you are going to claim that Jesus lied to us?

John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

John 10:9 I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture.

John 10:27-29 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

Hebrews 11:1-2 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Faith is taking God at his word about spiritual realities.

If someone doesn't believe that what God says is true, they don't have faith in Him.

847 posted on 05/30/2012 5:45:41 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: count-your-change
The Blessed Trinity wants everyone to honor and love Mary. Think of the Commandment to honor your parents. She can't appear to Protestants yet but by exception because you all proclaim heresies. Mary will at or after the Great Warning when we all believe the same. She loves you so much, everybody can speak to her now in prayer.

CYC: The actions or lack thereof of a young Jewish girl would hardly stop or frustrate the will of the Almighty from being accomplished.

God didn't give every person He created free will? Why bother sending the archangel Gabriel? Where does the "lack there of" apply to Mary?

“Mary of course, in a much greater way. ~Co-~ means WITH.”

Actually the prefix “co” indicates a partnership or joint participation as in “co-owner, co-editor” etc.

Exactly, Mary's free will choice, her "joint participation" in, another word "with" the Trinity's plan for mankind's redemption.

Mary didn't do any redeeming or buying back of mankind nor could she.

A person's prayers never helps "with" the salvation of far away loved ones or helps "with" something temporal here? Yes they do. How come our actions in helping Our Lord, our prayers are fine but Mary saying "yes" I will watch My Son die a terrible tortured death doesn't count? Which shows more of a cooperation in God's plan? Thank Mary, it would please Our Lord very much, reject the anti-Mary belief.

848 posted on 05/30/2012 5:48:42 PM PDT by stpio
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To: All

“When is this nonsense going to stop? The Church declares that in its doctrines Mary is the Co-redemptrix and then very specifically and unambiguously defines the term. Then some non-Catholics jump in and say “no that isn’t what you mean!”.

~ ~ ~

I think it’s to denigrate Mary because of upbringing.

Change is a very good thing when it’s positive. It’s also a sign of maturity.

The Eucharist, to love and honor Mary, give her your heart too, it can be Jesus and Mary.

AND Confession to priest.

Three majors!!!!! You will make it through to the 7th
Day.


849 posted on 05/30/2012 5:59:03 PM PDT by stpio
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To: Natural Law; CynicalBear; metmom
It’s Catholics who are forced to suffer the ignorance and foolishness of those who are either too intellectually incapable, too intellectually lazy or are too intellectually dishonest to learn the actual teachings of the Church before spouting off. What it looks like to you is of no consequence. An invalid charge does not warrant a defense, it only deserves a correction.

Who are "those" exactly?

    "It wouldn't be an impersonal pronoun used to permit skirting of the rules, would it, or is it just part of some broad based slur used to hide a grasp of the facts? Unless you specify the indefinite singular antecedent I might take it to be about me specifically and I would really hate to allow a simple inability to articulate a cohesive thought to be mistaken for a lack of Christian benignity."- Natural Law

Another excellent example of "Do as I say, not as I do."?

850 posted on 05/30/2012 6:43:05 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: stpio
I didn’t think you would get it that easily. Let’s try this and see if you can figure it out.

"That He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word"

851 posted on 05/30/2012 6:44:33 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Natural Law
>> Mary was preserved sinless by God<<

No she wasn’t. If she was sinless she wouldn’t have needed a savior. She knew she was a sinner in need of a savior.

852 posted on 05/30/2012 6:52:01 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Natural Law; metmom
>>You are right, Catholicism is not for the dull-witted and lazy.<<

So Catholicism isn’t for everybody ey? Don’t Catholics claim to be the only true body of Christ? I wonder what Jesus would say about locking those “dull witted” out of His grace and promise of salvation? How revealing that you would make a comment like that.

853 posted on 05/30/2012 7:06:09 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: stpio; metmom
>>Would the whole thing be invisible?<<

Yes

>>Would God simply give to each person of good will a silent inner conviction of being saved?<<

Yes. The peace that passes all understanding.

>>Each time that we felt the need of divine help, would we simply ask for it and immediately feel welling up within us a great surge of spiritual strength?<<

Yes

>>A Sacrament is an ~ outward sign instituted by Christ to give grace.<<

Nonsense. A sacrament is an outward symbolism of something that has already happened.

854 posted on 05/30/2012 7:11:58 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Natural Law; metmom
>>Protestants I have know who brashly proclaimed their own Salvation fell short<<

Fell short? So a person does earn or deserve salvation by his actions? You can’t “fall short” if Christ already gave you salvation and you trusted in that. Only through your own actions can you “fall short” because Christ did not “fall short”. Please don’t tell us that Catholics don’t believe the man must through his own actions earn or deserve salvation when so often you show that you believe he must.

855 posted on 05/30/2012 7:19:52 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Natural Law; count-your-change; stpio; metmom; boatbums
>>I also pray that I get the gift of patience to continue to suffer the fools.<<

Matthew 5:22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

856 posted on 05/30/2012 7:26:16 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: metmom
>>If someone doesn't believe that what God says is true, they don't have faith in Him.<<

amen and amen!

857 posted on 05/30/2012 7:27:44 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: stpio
>>after the Great Warning<<

After the great warning? I’ve got news for you. The warning has already been given.

858 posted on 05/30/2012 7:29:42 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: daniel1212

Good work on your link! I “favorited” it.


859 posted on 05/30/2012 7:44:39 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums
"Who are "those" exactly?"

You should go brush up on your Strunk & White. "Those" is the plural of "that". It is a plural pronoun used to narrowly specify the subject. "They" is a general plural pronoun used widely and inclusively refer to the subject. The two words are not interchangeable.

Unlike the general reference to Catholics you are alluding to, my reference was to the specific group who are either too intellectually incapable, too intellectually lazy or are too intellectually dishonest to learn the actual teachings of the Church before spouting off.

This is not another case of "Do as I say, not as I do", it is another prime example of the attempted interpretionan original intent without a firm grasp of the linguistic concepts and meanings involved.

Peace be with you.

860 posted on 05/30/2012 7:57:14 PM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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