Posted on 05/17/2012 5:40:57 PM PDT by Gamecock
Eloquently stated! Thank you.
No, no mistake. Obviously, Jesus WAS talking about a "second" birth, was he not? Nicodemas thought Jesus was talking about a repeat of the "physical" human birth, but Jesus was speaking about - AND he corrected Nicodemas on it - another kind of birth, a spiritual birth, a birth that was "from above" and not physical human birth. So, Jesus did say you MUST be born again and that birth was from above. When we come to saving faith in Jesus Christ, we are born again into the family of God - we become His children through faith and we have a new spirit nature within us. In order to go to heaven we MUST be born again.
Nicodemus didn't make a mistake...He knew that to be born from above meant to be 'born again'...And he quailified this statement by referencing the fact that how can he be born twice from his mother's womb...
I don't understand your problem with the word 'again'...
We can all pray that, when Natural Law presents his students with his revised list from your comment and they study together what Catholics are and are not “allowed” dissension on, a few will come to Free Republic and read these dialogs for themselves and the truth of the gospel shines through to those who sincerely seek it.
Jesus was talking about Spiritual conversion. Birth is a metaphor.
No one on Free Republic converts anyone. That is done only by the Holy Spirit and only when the time is right. All any of us can hope to accomplish is to prepare the way for the Holy Spirit and only that with the assistance of the Holy Spirit. So then, if the fruits of the Holy Spirit are not manifest in your words, deeds and intents you may well succeed in hindering the conversion.
Peace be with you.
From the context Nicodemus understood Jesus to be saying “again” as in a repeat and hence a Greek word, anothen, was chosen to translate what Jesus said.
A simple statement, “born again”.
Thayer’s Greek/English Lexicon might be helpful.
Something we agree about. One person plants, another waters, but God gives the increase.
JESUS IS THE WORD - your 'natural mind' CANNOT understand the spiritual things of God! Say it over and over - "The WORD always was..."
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH God, and the Word was God."
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
How did HE do it? HE SPOKE it into existence.
Genesis 1:3 And God SAID, "Let there be light," and there was light".
Psalm 33:9 "For HE spoke, and it came to be; HE commanded, and it stood firm".
Psalm 148:5 "Let them praise THE NAME OF THE LORD, for He commanded and they were created".
"The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us." Jesus was God’s perfect revelation of Himself in the flesh. Jesus is the living Word.
"For the Word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires". Heb 4:12
Peace be with you.
I have the peace of God that lives within me. Peace is the fruit of the Spirit.
God's Word is the Final Authority!
It's obvious you are 'RCC taught and not Spirit taught' - Individuals are HIS Church. God is a personal God. He knows the number of hairs on my head, He calls me friend, He lives within me and never will leave nor forsake me. Do you really think HE would leave His children in the hands of men? NEVER John 10:28 "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of My hand."
You speak of humble? What is humble about planning to use Daniel's work?
We are never going to agree
WRONG. One day you will agree and WILL BOW at THE TRUTH while the RCC's teachings are no more. ONLY God's WORD is everlasting!
Your scholarship pales in comparison to that of the Early Church Fathers, the doctors of the Church, the Episcopacy that forms the Magisterium, and the various saints and intellectual giants upon whose writings I have based my interpretation of Scripture.
You just proved Daniel has EXCELLED in his work! The HOLY SPIRIT inspired WORD cannot be understood by the natural man for it is spiritually discerned. Seems you failed in the interpretation of that one, also.
1 Cor 2:14 "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned". And The Holy Spirit lives within God's own. You base your knowledge on 'men' you never knew while Christians base their knowledge of God's Word on the Holy Spirit. You want to talk pale?
I respect you and your right to have your own opinions, I just don't respect them
God's Word is NOT an opinion - it is TRUTH! The catechism is an opinion of man/the RCC and used to control.
“Has the Catholic church published a commentary yet?”
Not an infallible or papal one, or anything as comprehensive as evangelical classics such as by Matthew Henry, Keil & Delitzsch, Jamieson, Fausset and Brown, Barnes, Clarke, etc.
Various excuses are offered as to why it has not, but it has at least a few approved, if contradictory, commentaries on the whole Bible, and from the stamped notes in the official RC Bible for America, the New American Bible, (NAB, 1970) we learn that,
that Genesis 2 (Adam and Eve and creation details) and Gn. 3 (the story of the Fall), Gn. 4:1-16 (Cain and Abel), Gn. 6-8 (Noah and the Flood), and Gn. 11:1-9 (Tower of Babe are “folktales,” using allegory to teach a religious lesson.
the story of Balaam and the donkey and the angel (Num. 22:1-21; 22:36-38) was a fable, while the records of Gn. (chapters) 37-50 (Joseph), 12-36 (Abraham, Issaac, Jacob), Exodus, Judges 13-16 (Samson) 1Sam. 17 (David and Goliath) and that of the Exodus are stories which are “historical at their core,” but overall the author simply used “traditions” to teach a religious lesson.
For their understanding that “Inspiration is guidance” means that Scripture is “God’s word and man’s word.” What this means is that the NAB rejects such things as that the Bible’s attribution of Divine sanction to wars of conquest, “cannot be qualified as revelation from God,” and states,
Think of the ‘holy wars’ of total destruction, fought by the Hebrews when they invaded Palestine. The search for meaning in those wars centuries later was inspired, but the conclusions which attributed all those atrocities to the command of God were imperfect and provisional.” (4. “Inspiration and Revelation,” p. 18)
It also holds that such things as “cloud, angels (blasting trumpets), smoke, fire, earthquakes,lighting, thunder, war, calamities, lies and persecution are Biblical figures of speech.”
(Thus engendering doubt as to the torment of Hell being also literal, while if the suffering of purgatory, which may be something someone experiences but in a moment, (Ratzinger, Akin; www.ewtn.com/library/answers/how2purg.htm) is applied to Hell, then it drastically impugns the motivational effect of the Lord’s words in such texts as Mk. 9:43-48, right after warning against offending one of these little ones that believe in me.)
The footnotes regarding the Red Sea (Ex. 10:19) informs readers that what the Israelites crossed over was the Reed Sea, which was “probably a body of shallow water somewhat to the north of the present deep Red Sea.” Thus rendered, the miracle would have been Pharaoh’s army drowning in shallow waters!
It likewise explains as regards to the sons of heaven [God] having relations with the daughters of men, (Gen. 6:1-4) “This is apparently a fragment of an old legend that had borrowed much from ancient mythology.” The NAB footnotes go on to explain the “sons of heaven” are “the celestial beings of mythology.”
In addition, even the ages of the patriarchs after the flood are deemed to be “artificial and devoid of historical value.” (Genesis 11:10-26)
All of which impugns the overall literal nature the O.T. historical accounts, and as Scripture interprets Scripture, we see that the Holy Spirit refers to such stories as being literal historical events (Adam and Eve: Mt. 19:4; Abraham, Issac, Exodus and Moses: Acts 7; Rm. 4; Heb. 11; Jonah and the fish: Mt. 12:39-41; Balaam and the donkey: 2Pt. 2:15; Jude. 1:1; Rev. 2:14). Indeed “the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety” (2Cor. 11:3; Rev. 12:9), and if Jonah did not spend 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the whale then neither did the Lord, while Israel’s history is always and inclusively treated as literal.
Regarding the Gospels, the NAB notes speculate that some of the miracle stories of Jesus in the New Testament (the fulfillment of of the Hebrew Bible) may be adaptations of similar ones in the Old Testament,” while He may not have actually been involved in the debates the gospel writers record He was in, and thinks that most of which Jesus is recorded as saying was probably theological elaboration by the writers.
It does allow that the slaughter of the innocents by King Herod, was “extremely probable,” and that people leaving Bethlehem to escape the massacre, is equally probable, but outside the historical background to this tradition, “the rest is interpretation.”
It additionally conveys such things as that Matthew placed Jesus in Egypt to convince his readers that Jesus was the real Israel, and may have only represented Jesus giving the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew, to show that Jesus was like Moses who received the law on Mount Sinai.
The current edition will not use render “porneia” as “sexual immorality” or anything sexual in places such as 1Cor. 5:1; 6:13; 7:2; 10:8; 2Cor. 12:21; Eph. 5:3; Gal. 5:19; Col. 3:5; 1Thes. 4:3; but simply has “immorality,” even though in most cases it is in a sexual context.
It is true that the liberal scholarship who Rome abounds with causes angst among her more traditional sect, and who relegate such to being CINOS in their judgment, but as said, Rome counts and treats them as members in life and in death.
BINGO!!
Like this from NL..... Your scholarship pales in comparison to that of the Early Church Fathers, the doctors of the Church, the Episcopacy that forms the Magisterium, and the various saints and intellectual giants upon whose writings I have based my interpretation of Scripture.
Actually, that is EXACTLY what he has done. "...vessels of clay..." and all that
EXCELLENT WORK
Though . . . as I awaken to my emails and other stuff . . . I’m beginning to wonder ALMOST seriously . . . if the globalists are lobotomizing sane thinking patriots and Christians in our sleep . . . given some of the utterly idiotic things written by some such folks on the net the last month or 3.
It appears that the black-ops psych folks have been working overtime quite successfully.
Authentic Christians need to be quick to agree together on supporting The Lord Jesus AND HIS PRIORITIES and letting all other chaff fall by the wayside.
Time is rapidly going down the drain.
Night is falling.
Work diligently under Holy Spirit’s guidance while there is still light.
From the group that demands a literal interpretation of *This is my body* and doesn't recognize the symbolism even when Jesus says that the words He is speaking about eating His flesh are Spirit and truth?!?!?!
Now THAT'S FUNNY!!!!
The height of irony .....
And hypocrisy
AMEN!!!
YOUR interpretation of Scripture?
That's allowed?
Since when?
I sure hope that's the last time we are castigated for YOPIOS by you, (although realistically ....)
Indeed, but there was a reason why lay Catholics were forbidden in engage in such debates as these, while too often there is a “firewall” in place that disallows objective seeking of the truth by examining both sides of the question, though this can be the place on both sides. We must be willing to go wherever the truth will lead, with hearts like the noble Bereans. (Acts 17:11)
WOW! Bottom line, they don’t believe God but lean unto their own understanding. They are just like ‘the world’. That doesn’t end well! Without the intervention of the Holy Spirit, I’d be a ‘victim’ of Catholicism/deception. Now that I’m out of that bondage, I can see, daily, how blessed I am and for eternity!
God’s Word ALONE reigns! Thank you, JESUS!
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