Posted on 04/24/2012 1:28:27 PM PDT by Jeff Head
As I stood in front of the new Mormon Temple in Liberty, Mo., it struck me as ironic that close to 175 years ago, Mormons were forced out of this same state.
Whereas the Missouri public once urged their governor to force Joseph Smith and his followers out of the area surrounding Kansas City, Mormons began to return to the region in the 1900s, eventually gathering in such large numbers that the Church organization decided the region needed a temple.
Which is why I came to visit.
Latter Day Saints restrict temple access to members of their denomination who have proven themselves to be faithful and dedicated adherents. Because Mormons believe temples are the most sacred places on earth, one needs to be prepared to enter them by being an active member of the Church. (In contrast, chapels, where Mormons hold Sunday worship, are open to everyone. Temples are used only for certain rituals and are not open on Sunday so that Mormons can be at their chapel services.)
When a new temple is built, anyone may enter prior to its dedication. So, always curious to learn about the faith of others, I didn't want to miss an opportunity to see a site normally closed off to an Episcopal priest like myself.
My visit seemed all the more timely because Mormons have been in the news a lot lately, and so have their temples. Elizabeth Smart recently married her husband in a temple in Hawaii during a ceremony called a sealing, in which the couple and close Mormon friends and family gather together to witness God joining the couple together for time and all eternity. In less complimentary news, Elie Wiesel took Mitt Romney to task for his faith's practice of baptisms of the dead, which also take places within temple walls.
These headlines, in addition to my own curiosity, motivated my visit to the new temple in Kansas City, and with my curiosity came some questions:
What does a Mormon temple look like, and what happens inside it?
Would I feel God's presence in this space, even though it's not a space that's sacred for me?
Before I go any further -- and because I know it's the question at the front of your mind, dear reader -- no one tried to convert me. In fact, everyone was very welcoming. Members volunteered en masse, clad in pressed suits and dresses. They offered guided tours, bent down to put protective boots onto my feet so my shoes wouldn't dirty the carpeting, and offered me a chewy snickerdoodle at the end of the tour. They showed me every space from changing rooms to sealing rooms where marriages take place and answered every question I asked, no matter how challenging or controversial.
And in the end, yes, I did have a God moment.
But I'm getting ahead of myself.
Mormons go to temples to be close to God. Much like the ancient Jewish people believed God lived at the heart of the temple in Jerusalem, Mormons believe that followers can meet God most intimately in the temple. The reasons they visit temples vary: In addition to having their marriages sealed in the temple, Mormons also have sealing ceremonies that unite parents and children for time and all eternity. Others come to participate in baptisms of the dead, which are intended to be used only for deceased family members of active Mormons, though the Church acknowledged in the wake of Elie Wiesel's comments that others -- such as Anne Frank -- have had baptisms performed on their behalf. These baptisms are not intended to convert the deceased but rather to give them a choice in the afterlife to embrace the revelation of Mormonism: Assuming an afterlife exists, the baptized deceased are free to say yes or no as they please. Finally, Mormons come to the temple to receive their endowment, a ritual ceremony where followers make promises to God and receive knowledge about God.
Unlike a cathedral, which is primarily composed of one large worship space, a Mormon temple has a variety of smaller rooms that serve different purposes. There are sealing rooms and rooms for men and women to change into white clothes (every male or female Mormon who enters a dedicated temple wears the same white clothing) and instruction rooms where individuals learn about God in preparation for receiving their endowments.
It was in these rooms, and the final Celestial Room, where I caught a glimpse of God.
You see, as part of our final stop on the tour, our guide took us to a room with a mural of the Missouri countryside painted by a local artist. The room had earthy colors, browns and greens and rows of cushioned seats. This was the first instruction room. From there, we took a step up -- as if ascending closer to heaven -- and entered a second room, similar to the first in shape and size but all white. This was the second instruction room. When we left that room, we took another step up and entered the Celestial Room, a space designed to give those who sit in it a foretaste of heaven.
It was a simple room yet ornate at the same time, all white with sparkling crystal chandeliers, large mirrors, and plump sofas and chairs reminiscent of those that must have existed in Joseph Smith's day. Our guide asked us to be silent and said we were welcome to sit wherever we liked and take a moment to pray. So I sat down on a sofa that seemed to envelop me, folded my hands on my lap and closed my eyes.
Like Dante, who saw God face to face but had no words to describe the encounter, I have few words to describe what I felt in that moment. But I can say this: While it did not convert me, nor did it make me want to be a Mormon, the silence and peace I felt reminded me of the many other times I've felt close to God, whether in an Episcopal cathedral, in a clear, warm ocean or in my ratty old car. And because of that, I came to understand why temples exist and why they are so important to Mormons across the world.
And along the lines of Mormons being across the world: As I wrote earlier, Mormons were ironically driven out of Liberty, Missouri and the surrounding region nearly 175 years ago. It cannot be lost on those who visit the new temple that almost two centuries later, Mormons are often still held in suspicion by society, but they are far from being as vulnerable as they were in their early years. They are building stronger foundations every day, and striving, as they do so, to catch a glimpse of heaven.
Again; conjecture.
To WHOM was this LAW given?
Jews or Gentiles?
The MORMONs received THEIR 'law' from GOD himself (read their 'scripture')
Do not try to change the subject to what I should or should not do.
No doubt you did. But; did they have Temple Recommends?
Worthy MORMONs (self described) admit to being part time vegans.
But you are trying to suggest what the bible did NOT say: where they were FROM.
Is another way of saying punishment snipe - look it up. Jerusalem and Peter were the core of evangelism through chapter 12. With chapter 13 that shifts to Paul and the greater roman empire.
Following the pattern Jesus laid out in Acts 1
Keep trying snipe
Acts Ch 2 7They were beside themselves with wonder. “How can this be?” they exclaimed. “These people are all from Galilee, 8and yet we hear them speaking the languages of the lands where we were born! 9Here we are—Parthians, Medes, Elamites, people from Mesopotamia, Judea, Cappadocia, Pontus, the province of Asia, 10Phrygia, Pamphylia, Egypt, and the areas of Libya toward Cyrene, visitors from Rome (both Jews and converts to Judaism), 11Cretans, and Arabians. And we all hear these people speaking in our own languages about the wonderful things God has done!” 12They stood there amazed and perplexed. “What can this mean?” they asked each other. 13But others in the crowd were mocking. “They’re drunk, that’s all!” they said.
And as I have pointed out a post or two ago The Bible says The Gospel initally was spread to more distant areas by those who had fled after Stephens death. Of course I know you still have more too say.
The best thing I can tell you for your own mental health sake is if you don’t like what Mormons believe then stay out of their church and don’t bother them and they will likely do likewise for you.
It's been a while since I read the OT laws especially the ones related to what was allowed to be eaten etc. Some OT laws applied to Jews, some to Jews and those living in their household, and even included their animals. Too broad a subject to go into piece by piece.
You are taking some things way too the extreme. I know of a church very popular in this nation. It believes in the manifestation of spiritual gifts. They believe ones salvation is proved by the person speaking in tongues. Are they Christians? Yes. misguided but Christians. Some of that sect still believe members in their church are given prophecies. You likely know it as The Church of GOD. Services and church policies can vary greatly from church too church. You want to go condemn them all? You disagree then stay away from them and leave them be. GOD through The Holy Spirit in time will bring correction but likely not you.
OK Here is your answer in scripture.
Romans ch 14 14I know and am perfectly sure on the authority of the Lord Jesus that no food, in and of itself, is wrong to eat. But if someone believes it is wrong, then for that person it is wrong. 15And if another Christian is distressed by what you eat, you are not acting in love if you eat it. Don’t let your eating ruin someone for whom Christ died. 16Then you will not be condemned for doing something you know is all right.
17For the Kingdom of God is not a matter of what we eat or drink, but of living a life of goodness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18If you serve Christ with this attitude, you will please God. And other people will approve of you, too. 19So then, let us aim for harmony in the church and try to build each other up.
20Don’t tear apart the work of God over what you eat. Remember, there is nothing wrong with these things in themselves. But it is wrong to eat anything if it makes another person stumble. 21Don’t eat meat or drink wine or do anything else if it might cause another Christian to stumble. 22You may have the faith to believe that there is nothing wrong with what you are doing, but keep it between yourself and God. Blessed are those who do not condemn themselves by doing something they know is all right. 23But if people have doubts about whether they should eat something, they shouldn’t eat it. They would be condemned for not acting in faith before God. If you do anything you believe is not right, you are sinning.
Elsie even The Apostles did some things in their time for example shaving ones head which is not generally practiced today. But I believe what Paul says on meat and food should apply to the rest of our lives. Any church rules a church may ask of members would be like a Monastery having a requirement of something say perhaps silence?
Older and Modern Christianity has had practices many have done even related to eating or something in their life that were acceptable including fasting which is not necessarilly giving up all food but rather a specific food for example. Many churches practice it. Is that not part of what some sects call Lent?
Sigh, having to denigrate yourself to name calling. It becomes a punishment when the means used in the correction are punitive. Telling a boy not to run is not the same as killing people, I mean you should even be able to figure that out. BTW, you will find "correction" listed as an euphemism for punishment.
BTW snipe, I'll post and comment on whatever I see fit. A typical troll tries to bully into silence - and that is what your words are attempting to do.
Most persons except for a TROLL take a persons word especially after a clarification. You of course took a second definition even after I clarified now didn't you. Just so you could continue to TROLL.
Most reasonable persons take a clarification {several actually} as just that. Trolls Don't or rather TROLLS WON'T. Instead a Troll will come right back with the same accusations which they twist, they lie about what you meant, and they say but you meant this when plainly after several clarifications they did not. That is about as TROLL as Troll gets. Which is just what you are doing. That makes you a Troll.
By correction I meant instructing, leading, guidance, tell someone one hey do this instead. But again you knew that.
Just like a TROLL you get on one point and stay there. Then when your hand is called it's I'm trying to bully you? My Oh My LOL. Poor Widdle Troll. Your Bullying didn't work on me TROLL. Bye Troll.
Yep, parse that sentence. You indicated that the Holy Spirit caused the persecution because the church was still in Jerusalem. Thus, by causing the persecution - the Spirit killed or harmed people - your context from the start.
But when you can't win by the force of argument, name calling is what you resort to. Well, just shows your character snipe.
Yet you are trying to say that the BELIEVEING ones stayed in Jerusalem.
Which is it?
Me bein g nutty as a fruitcake does NOT the FACT that MORMONism is a heresy that needs to be exposed.
Surely; as a BIBLE believeing Christian you agree with that; right?
Me being nutty as a fruitcake does not CHANGE the FACT that MORMONism is a heresy that needs to be exposed.
Surely; as a BIBLE believeing Christian you agree with that; right?
Not my problem. Please stay on subject: MORMON HERESY.
The bible (and you referenced it) had a sheet full of all kinds of things to eat.
Joseph Smith, a MORMON Living Prophet® (the FIRST one) said in Doctrines & Covenants Section 89:12-13 (and I quote):
12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;
13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.
9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”
14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”
15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”
Acts ch 11 19Meanwhile, the believers who had fled from Jerusalem during the persecution after Stephen’s death traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus, and Antioch of Syria. They preached the Good News, but only to Jews. 20However, some of the believers who went to Antioch from Cyprus and Cyrene began preaching to Gentiles£ about the Lord Jesus. 21The power of the Lord was upon them, and large numbers of these Gentiles believed and turned to the Lord. 22When the church at Jerusalem heard what had happened, they sent Barnabas to Antioch. 23When he arrived and saw this proof of God’s favor, he was filled with joy, and he encouraged the believers to stay true to the Lord. 24Barnabas was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and strong in faith. And large numbers of people were brought to the Lord.
Or KJV
Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.
Going back to Acts chapter 2
41Those who believed what Peter said were baptized and added to the church—about three thousand in all. 42They joined with the other believers and devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, sharing in the Lord’s Supper and in prayer. The Believers Meet Together 43A deep sense of awe came over them all, and the apostles performed many miraculous signs and wonders. 44And all the believers met together constantly and shared everything they had. 45They sold their possessions and shared the proceeds with those in need. 46They worshiped together at the Temple each day, met in homes for the Lord’s Supper, and shared their meals with great joy and generosity—47all the while praising God and enjoying the goodwill of all the people. And each day the Lord added to their group those who were being saved.
Now KJV
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all [men], as every man had need. And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
Yes I believe until the death of Stephen those added to the church at Pentecost remained in Jerusalem. The Persicutions which began that day drove the believeras out of Jerusalem and into neighboring cities and nations. Looking further The Disciples seemed to have their hands full taking care of them.
Acts chapter 6
1But as the believers rapidly multiplied, there were rumblings of discontent. Those who spoke Greek complained against those who spoke Hebrew, saying that their widows were being discriminated against in the daily distribution of food. 2So the Twelve called a meeting of all the believers. “We apostles should spend our time preaching and teaching the word of God, not administering a food program,” they said. 3“Now look around among yourselves, brothers, and select seven men who are well respected and are full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom. We will put them in charge of this business. 4Then we can spend our time in prayer and preaching and teaching the word.” 5This idea pleased the whole group, and they chose the following: Stephen (a man full of faith and the Holy Spirit), Philip, Procorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas of Antioch (a Gentile convert to the Jewish faith, who had now become a Christian). 6These seven were presented to the apostles, who prayed for them as they laid their hands on them. 7God’s message was preached in ever-widening circles. The number of believers greatly increased in Jerusalem, and many of the Jewish priests were converted, too. Stephen Is Arrested 8Stephen, a man full of God’s grace and power, performed amazing miracles and signs among the people. 9But one day some men from the Synagogue of Freed Slaves, as it was called, started to debate with him. They were Jews from Cyrene, Alexandria, Cilicia, and the province of Asia. 10None of them was able to stand against the wisdom and Spirit by which Stephen spoke.
Read the issues the disciples faced. I think the verses pretty well say where the believers were staying. At Stephens death the believers scattered and because they scattered The Gospel spread to further places. This era from Pentecost to Stephen's death was short. I've looked at several time lines and it could have been two years or as many as 4-6.
Paul's conversion by some sources was 35 AD. Meaning by that time was fairly short from the Pentecost to persicution.
The post I made in 361 refering to Peter’s vision of the sheet had NOTHING to do with eating it had to do with showing Peter to accept & minister too the Gentiles and I said so in that post and you know I did.
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