Posted on 04/09/2012 8:42:59 AM PDT by marshmallow
When we read the various accounts of the Resurrection in the four Gospels, Acts and Pauline Epistles we can easily be puzzled by some apparent discrepancies in the details.
The Pope in his recent book, Jesus of Nazareth (Vol II) says, We have to acknowledge that this testimony [of Scripture] considered from an historical point of view, is presented to us in a particularly complex form and gives rise to many questions. (P. 242)
The Pope goes on to explain what he considers to be the reason for this complexity and apparent divergence in some of the details.
What actually happened? Clearly for the witnesses who encountered the risen Lord, it was not easy to say. They were confronted with what, for them, was an entirely new reality, far beyond the limits of their own experience. Much as the reality of the event overwhelmed them and impelled them to bear witness, it was still utterly unlike anything they had previously known. (p. 242).
The Pope then reminds us that Jesus’ resurrection was experienced by them as something far beyond the resuscitation of a corpse. Rather, Jesus had taken up a wholly new and transformed humanity that was beyond anything they could fully describe or had ever experienced.
With all this in mind we are better able to appreciate the ecstatic qualities of the resurrection accounts and appreciate why all their details do not perfectly line up. The accounts have a rather crisp, “lets get to the point” quality; especially the accounts of the first day of the appearances. Frankly, one would be surprised if every detail in the account of an astonishing event were exactly the same. One might even suspect a story that was too controlled and wonder as to a kind of brainwashing or conspiracy having taken place.
(Excerpt) Read more at blog.adw.org ...
one correction. Lazarus was in Abraham’s Bosom, also known as Paradise, a compartment of Hades for believers. No believer’s soul ascended to Heaven, the abode of God the Father, prior to the Cross as they had not been purified to stand in Heaven at that time. Once the perfect sacrifice had been made, the veil was rent in two and now it may be feasible through faith in Him.
You are correct in the doctrine that today after the first death, believers are face to face with the Lord. Some theologies assert this implies the locative position of our souls prior to the Resurrection is in Heaven. If our souls and spirit remain separated, I believe you are correct.
Do you hate them?
The subject is not whatever you say it is. Well, for you the subject is anything you like. For me, the subject is “three nights”. Three nights is not a tough concept to grasp. It means: “three nights”. It means the same thing in the Samuel passage you cited. Three nights = three nights.
Now a question for you. Why do you seem so hostile? Are you angry w me over something? I asked a sincere question and have been extremely appreciative of all the replies. I have found this discussion very helpful. Now, at the tale end of it, you seem to be on some kind of vendetta. You want to make it personal. Why?
Also, keep in mind that a new day *begins* at sundown. Friday afternoon into Friday night ... and we’re already touching 2 distinct “days,” according to Jewish culture circa 33 AD.
Leave it to the pope to cause his followers to doubt, goodness sakes, wake up people ...
So noted; thank you.
'it is clear from the Gospels that Jesus was crucified on Friday, the day of Preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath” (Mark 15:42) and raised on Sunday, the “first day of the week” (Mark 16:2). If the temporal designation of Matthew 12:40 is taken literally, a conflict does exist between the time indicated in this verse and the time indicated in the accounts of the passion story.'
Now a question for you. Why do you seem so hostile?
I can offer no insight into your perceptions, other than to note that this one does not correspond to reality.
Are you attempting to show Jesus' Word's 'ridiculous' in light of modern moral context? or is this a vain attempt to suggest Jesus' Words should never be taken literally?
Do you know exactly why Jesus was using those examples to illustrate?
'it is clear from the Gospels that Jesus was crucified on Friday, the day of Preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath”
Where in scripture does it say Jesus was crucified on Friday? Are you not capable of reading and understanding the Gospel accounts and the timeline clearly laid out?
AGAIN, read what I laid out in Post #19. Leviticus 23:5 states that at 'even' or sunset on Nissan 14 "Is the Lord's Passover'. Then verse 26 says that on the 15th of the month at evening (sunset) - is an High Sabbath: the First Day of Unleavened Bread - a holy convocation.
It was custom, and STILL IS for the Jews to refer to the day before EITHER the regular weekly Sabbath OR the day before a High Sabbath - to be a Day of Preparation - for all Sabbaths required no work to be done.
John 19:31 makes it clear that the 'Sabbath' that was drawing on after Jesus died was NOT the regular 7th Day Sabbath, but "an high day" meaning a High Holy Day - a Holy Convocation exactly as Leviticus 23 commands. The Jews did not refer to the weekly Sabbath as 'an High Day', they made that reference only to the 7 annual Feasts of the Lord as commanded in Leviticus 23 which was the foundation of Mosaic Law
The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.- John 19:31
That verse makes clear that the Jews did not want the bodies to remain on the cross on the high Sabbath day (or First Day of Unleavened bread).
Jesus IS OUR PASSOVER (I Corinthians 5:7). He died ON PASSOVER the 14th of Nissan at 3 PM or the 9th hour - exactly as the Gospel accounts state. Hebrews under the blood of a lamb were spared death in Egypt and Christians are spared eternal death if we are under the Blood of the Lamb of God, which NEEDED to be spilled on Passover itself - which according to the scriptures in Leviticus was NOT an High Day - the 15th or the next day which began at sunset was.
If the temporal designation of Matthew 12:40 is taken literally, a conflict does exist between the time indicated in this verse and the time indicated in the accounts of the passion story.'
So you are saying that we should not take Jesus' words 'literally', because if we do - there is a conflict?
Sorry - the only conflict is the tradition of men that was grafted into the church to mandate a Friday crucifixion and a Sunday morning resurrection.
This is where Secularists and Atheists have a field day with Christians, illustrating them to believe in fairy tales that are not consistent with the book they claim to follow.
If we do not take Jesus' Words of three days AND three nights in the grave LITERALLY, then where is our faith that we should believe He is the Messiah?? Should we then not also take His promise of eternal Life if we Believe on Him as a metaphor and not a literal promise?
Such arguments have been made since the First century - and if three days and three nights are just figurative for a death, then as the secularists charge - the bible - especially the New Testament is a provable fraud.
It IS NOT A FRAUD, but it becomes one when traditions and agendas are read into the plain text of the Gospels and of scripture itself.
Are you attempting to show Jesus' Word's 'ridiculous' in light of modern moral context?
Certainly not. I'm showing that Jesus sometimes made use of modes of expression other than the purely literal, in that case hyperbole.
or is this a vain attempt to suggest Jesus' Words should never be taken literally?
"Never"? That's a feeble straw man.
Do you know exactly why Jesus was using those examples to illustrate?
Does the answer to that have a bearing on whether He meant His words literally?
AGAIN, read what I laid out in Post #19.
"Again"? This is the first time you've directed my attention to that post. Hope you're better at counting nights. ;-D
What you wrote there sounds reasonable; I didn't know about "High Sabbaths" and will study the matter further. (For the record, I'm no more wedded to a Friday crucifixion than I am to a December 25th birth.)
I read the quote you’ve posted several times. If it’s so clear that Jesus was only in the ‘heart of the earth’ two nights, why did He prophesy that He would be there three nights? If you respond by saying ‘ nights = 2 nights’ your credibility takes a hit. For instance, If Obama took a sudden three-days-three-nights vacation to HI [on the taxpayer dime], came back and said, ‘Hey, it was only for 2 nights’, would you accept that? Or would you say, ‘The liar can’t even admit he spent 3 days AND 3 nights in HI’.
As for me, it would be Option Two all the way.
Stephen Ray I have a lot of respect in regards to how he presents commentary in regards to scripture, both online and when I can catch him on EWTN.
Those three days that Jesus died, was entombed, and rose were then Friday, Saturday, and Sunday = 3 days.
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