Saul And The Charismatics...

http://billrandles.wordpress.com/2012/02/13/saul-and-the-charismatics/ ^ | 02-14-12 | Bill Randles

[pastorbillrandles]

And when Saul saw the host of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart greatly trembled. And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets. Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.(I Samuel 28:5-7)

I have no problem believing that God sovereignly granted revival in the 1960′s -70′s, renewing faith in the reality of Jesus, introducing church people to Jesus for the first time, and baptizing multitudes from all walks of life, and over the spectrum of denominations in the Holy Ghost. The movement became known as the Charismatic renewal.

Why not? Didn’t He promise us that …

… it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:(Acts 2:17-18)

I myself came to Christ at the end of the 1970′s, in a charismatic church. But the critical question of any movement is not one of the beginning, but of the end…how does it end?

Of course in one sense the Charismatic movement never ends, for it didn’t begin in the 1960′s nor at Azusa street, but in Jerusalem. It shall never end, being established by Jesus, clothed in the Holy Spirit and known as the church.

But the charismatic movement as a historical reality, that sovereign move of God of 40 years ago,which turned so many to Jesus and the Spirit in a godless day, has been co-opted by it’s “leaders” and seems to be going the way of King Saul.

Saul seriously disobeyed God at several key points in his life, doing what he “felt” was right, rather than adhering to the Word of God. He wouldn’t go by the Word, but by “feelings”. God called that rebellion and even “witchcraft”,

And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.(I Samuel 15:22-23)

One of the problems with the Charismatic movement, was that it was beset with a variety of false teachers. Oral Roberts, with his seed faith, prosperity teaching. New Thought influenced teachers such as Kenneth Hagin and Copeland, who taught that we are all “little gods”, and could create our own reality by our words.

Who can forget the “deliverance movement” which was basically superstitious hysteria, but brought millions into bondage? How about the attempt by some to bring about order, imposing the cultic and oppressive “shepherding movement”?

False teaching imposes a terrible toll, it breaks down the defenses and corrupts the soul. Doctrine, good or bad, is not insignificant, it is of critical importance.

The Prophetic movement heralded by the false Kansas City Prophets and John Wimber, promoted experience over doctrine, and induced millions into “spiritual drunkenness” and gnostic mysticism.

These are just a sampling of the influences which flooded into the wake of millions of people coming to a living faith in Jesus and an awareness of the Holy Spirit. Like an accumulation of toxins in a body they have had an eroding effect on the church.

Time fails me to go into the other excesses such as the unbiblical ecumenism, the Toronto and Pensacola movements, neo apostles and prophets, and spiritual warfare.

The common theme of all of these excesses is that the charismatics have always been strongly urged not to judge! Discernment has been ridiculed and criticized! These things have taken a toll.

The charismatic movement is in danger of ending like Saul…

At the end of Saul’s life, he went into the occult. God wasn’t speaking to him anymore. Samuel was by now dead, although Saul consistently ignored him whilst alive. Saul had chased David away. killed the priests and found himself in real trouble.

And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.

He who had once purged the land of witches and wizards, now sought out a witch, that he might commune with the now dead Samuel!

Benny Hinn is just one Charismatic leader who has testified of his own necromancy,(communication with the dead). He tells os his frequent visits to Kathryn Kuhlman’s tomb, to get an impartation of “her anointing”!

“One of the strangest experiences I had a few years ago [was] visiting Aimee’s tomb in California. This Thursday I’m on TBN. Friday I am gonna go and visit Kathryn Kuhlman’s tomb. It’s close by Aimee’s in Forest Lawn Cemetery. I’ve been there once already and every so often I like to go and pay my respects ‘cause this great woman of God has touched my life. And that grave, uh, where she’s buried is closed, they built walls around it. You can’t get in without a key and I’m one of the very few people who can get in. But I’ll never forget when I saw Aimee’s tomb. It’s incredibly dramatic. She was such a lady that her tomb has seven-foot angels bowing on each side of her tomb with a gold chain around it. As—as incredible as it is that someone would die with angels bowing on each side of her grave, I felt a terrific anointing when I was there. I actually, I—I, hear this, I trembled when I visited Aimee’s tomb. I was shaking all over. God’s power came all over me. … I believe the anointing has lingered over Aimee’s body. I know this may be shocking to you. … And I’m going to take David [Palmquist] and Kent [Mattox] and Sheryl [Palmquist] this week. They’re gonna come with me. You—you—you gonna feel the anointing at Aimee’s tomb. It’s incredible. And Kathryn’s. It’s amazing. I’ve heard of people healed when they visited that tomb. They were totally healed by God’s power. You say, ‘What a crazy thing.’ Brother, there’s things we’ll never understand. Are you all hearing me?”11Benny Hinn sermon, Double Portion Anointing, Part #3, Orlando Christian Center, Orlando, Fla., April 7, 1991. From the series, Holy Ghost Invasion. TV#309, tape on file.

Familiarity with the Word of God would deliver Hinn’s followers, for God says He hates the sin of necromancy. Isaiah tells us that those who seek anything from the dead have no light in them,

When someone tells you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living? Consult God’s instruction and the testimony of warning. If anyone does not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn(Isaiah 8:9-12)

The flavor of the day in Charismatic circles is Bethel church in Redding California, headed by a Word Faith, Prophetic movement, pastor , Bill Johnson. At His Bethel School of ministry, he teaches students to “honor the Generals of revival”, that is leaders such as Smith Wigglesworth, Aimee Semple Mcpherson, Evan Roberts, and others.

“Honoring” them to Johnson means compiling a vast collection of their books and artifacts,and opening a “generals library” for charismatics to visit. But like Hinn, Johnson also believes in visiting their tombs, and literally “soaking” the “anointing” by being in the presence of their graves.

Bethel Students “Soaking Anointing” Off of Tombs !

Those who discern are seeing countless other evidences that like Saul, the Charismatic movement has gone into the occult, for false prophecy, dream interpretation, necromancy,spiritual drunkenness are all characteristics, not of christian spirituality but “the delusion”, a revival of deceiving spirits that Paul warned about, as a consequence of rejection of the Word of God.

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.( 2 Thess 2:8-12)

[Quix]

INDEED.

THX.

[Quix]

Hmmmmmmmmm

And when the deacons/elders meet . . . such is not discussed or dealt with?

[evangmlw]

I was completely immersed in obedience to Christ before becoming involved with Pentecostals; however, water baptism saves no one. Baptism into Christ brings salvation.

[evangmlw]

I do believe there is an internal witness of the Spirit that we are children of God. The Bible says, “the Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God.” I think Charismatics & Pentecostals move well beyond this in the supernatural realm. I still believe in a supernatural God, yet very careful with internal feelings and external manifestations which can be deceptive.

[evangmlw]

I’m prepared and ready for it!

[evangmlw]

My transition was theological and spiritual based upon the diligent search and study of Scripture.

[Tramonto]

What I see every Sunday in church is a huge emphasis on the Spirit.

HE’S the one being invited to come and join us during the worship service, as if He’s not there anyway.

Luke 11:13 according to hyper-pentecostals:

If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father the Holy Spirit give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”

The hyper-pentacostals seem to seek after signs and wonders more than after God.

[Politicalmom]

I’m really a Southern Baptist at heart, but my kids and I have been attending an Assembly since our move to CA a few years ago. The pastor is exceptional, and the doctrine is sound, so I tolerate the occasional lapse into tongues. They pray for the military every week, and speak out strongly against sin.

My Dad quotes his favorite, Dr. J. Vernon McGee as saying that the only thing propping up the tongues movement is women, and I tend to agree, to a great extent. Men NEVER speak in tongues at this church. Some of it isn’t even translated, which is completely unScriptural and when it is translated, it’s garbage. I refuse to believe that God would speak through someone to say “I love you” over and over and nothing else. :)

[Osage Orange]

J. Vernon McGee was a great teacher...............

[metmom]

It seems that much of Pentecostalism ignores the instructions given on how to use the gifts in 1 Corinthians 14.

I haven’t really paid attention in church as to whether women do it more or men but based on my recollection, it is women.

Tongues is a sign to UNbelievers, not believers. You’re right that its current use in churches is unScriptural.

My contention with these incidents is that if something spoken in tongues if not in Scripture or can’t be supported by Scripture, then it is to be rejected as it has no Scriptural basis.

If it IS found in Scripture, then it’s already there and is redundant and so isn’t necessary.

We don’t need any more *new* revelation. We need people who are going to walk out the revelation they have already been given. Once we’re obedient to what we’ve been shown so far, God will take us further.

Back in June I was filled with the Holy Spirit, not in church, I didn’t fall down, and didn’t speak in tongues. Didn’t need to to tell me that was from God. But my life hasn’t been the same since and that has been the only outward manifestation of that filling.

And you know what? The individualist within doesn’t WANT to speak in tongues; simply because everyone else is doing it. If God chooses to ever give me that gift, then I won’t argue. If someone else rags on me about *needing to* speak in tongues, watch how fast I will dig my heels in.

[Theo]

Good points, Quix.

[crosshairs]

Matthew 7:14 King James Version (KJV)

14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

[Quix]

Thanks for your kind reply.

I accept that you are telling me, essentially,

that there were 0.0000000% ego, relationship etc. issues involved.

Good.

[Quix]

‘Careful Mildred,’

“individualism”

and perverse stubbornness are not always that far apart.

LUB, however.

[Quix]

Thanks for your kind reply.

Folks—even Pentecostal folks—are NOT PREPARED

for the VASTLY DRAMATIC move of Holy Spirit ahead in these END TIMES.

Certainly the enemy’s counterfeiter will be busy as well.

Discernment IS essential.

However, folks must be cautious about throwing out the baby with the bath.

Baby’s father would NOT be amused.

[metmom]

Stubbornness in regard to things not of God.

If it's of God, that's a different story.

Romans 12 1 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. 2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

[Quix]

GOOD.

[Zuriel]

**water baptism saves no one**

Without the name of Jesus invoked, it is of little good.
The command in Acts 2:38 is not important then, in your opinion.

“..days of Noah,...eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ...” 1Peter 3:20,21

Why a good conscience....because of obeying “from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered” to us. “Being THEN made free from sin..” (Rom. 6:17,18) A few verses earlier Paul reminded the saints at Rome of their conversion; “how that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death”. (If you could have been literally buried with Jesus Christ, you would most likely have been stained with some of his blood.)

Paul’s own conversion shows a man brought low by God himself; how he was even spoken to by the Lord, and given INSTRUCTIONS to follow. Paul was well aware of who Jesus was, short of realizing until that point, that he was indeed the Christ. At that blinding appearance, Paul was told that he would be “a witness.....of those things..”.

Yet, even after that, and meeting Ananias, and hearing his testamony as well, Paul was still in his sins, for Ananias commanded Paul: “And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord”. Acts 22:16

Some food for thought:

The weak things confound the the things that are mighty. And devout tradition can be ignorantly flawed tradition. Young King Josiah was completely immersed into following God’s will, doing all that the priests and scribes advised him to do, as well as what God had put on his heart. Josiah’s earnest devotion led to getting all spiritual things back to as original condition as possible, including the temple of the Lord. This great desire led to finding the ‘lost’ book of the law, and for it to be read. It was shocking to him, causing him to rend his clothes and declare that the they were in big trouble for not keeping the word of the Lord.

In Acts 19, Paul encountered some devoted men in Ephesus, and asked them “Have ye received the Holy Ghost SINCE YE BELIEVED?” Since they had not heard of the Holy Ghost, Paul asked them of their baptism, and found that they had been baptized unto repentance after John’s baptism. Paul reminded them of John’s message to “believe on him which should come after him, that is on Jesus Christ”. This leads to the possibility that these men had heard of Jesus, but were evidently not baptized in his name, since Paul promptly baptized them in the name of the Lord Jesus.

This is just a start. I have much more, but must break off for tonight.

[boatbums]

Good article! I agree that the so-called Charismatic Movement has spawned more and more false teachers and false doctrine as the years go by. It almost seems impossible some of the things these self-described anoint-eds have come up with and the thousands of ignorant of God's word followers that chase them from town to town. A church I used to attend a number of years ago had a few couples who were really into the "holy laughter" ministry of Rodney Howard-Browne. If anyone dared to speak against anything he said, their answer was a stern, "Touch not God's anointed!". You are right, the discernment God expects us to learn is dumped in favor of following teachers with "itching ears" who seem to desire money more than seeking God's true will for them.

[Tramonto]

I checked out your website and thought you looked familiar. Today, I went to re-watch a sermon at Moriel.org, The Great Church Robbery, and noticed you are the guy who is introducing him.

Nice to see you here on FR.