Posted on 01/18/2012 3:19:15 PM PST by NYer
.- Pope Benedict XVI said today that achieving Christian unity requires more than “cordiality and cooperation” and that it must be accompanied by interior conversion.
“Faith in Christ and interior conversion, both individual and communal, must constantly accompany our prayer for Christian unity,” said the Pope to over 8,000 pilgrims gathered in the Vatican’s Paul VI Audience Hall on Jan. 18.
The Pope’s comments mark the start of the 2012 Week of Prayer for Christian Unity that runs until Jan. 25. It will be observed by over 300 Christian churches and ecclesial communities around the globe.
The Pope asked for “the Lord in a particular way to strengthen the faith of all Christians, to change our hearts and to enable us to bear united witness to the Gospel.”
In this way, he said, they “will contribute to the new evangelization and respond ever more fully to the spiritual hunger of the men and women of our time.”
The Pope explained that the concept of a week of prayer for Christian unity was initiated in 1908 by Paul Wattson, an Episcopalian minister from Maryland. One year later, he became a Catholic and was subsequently ordained to the priesthood.
Pope Benedict recalled how the initiative was supported by his predecessors Pope St. Pius X and Pope Benedict XV. It was then “developed and perfected” in the 1930s by the Frenchman Abbé Paul Couturier, who promoted prayer “for the unity of the Church as Christ wishes and according to the means he wills.”
The mandate for the week of prayer, the Pope underscored, comes from the wish of Christ himself at the Last Supper “that they may all be one.” He observed that this mission was given a particular impetus by the Second Vatican Council (1962-65) but added that “the unity we strive for cannot result merely from our own efforts.” Rather, “it is a gift we receive and must constantly invoke from on high.”
The theme for 2012 Week of Prayer – “All shall be changed by the victory of Jesus Christ our Lord” – was crafted by the Polish Ecumenical Council. Pope Benedict said it reflects “their own experience as a nation,” which stayed faithful to Christ “in the midst of trials and upheavals,” including years of occupation by the Nazis and later the Communists.
The Pope tied the victory the Polish people experienced over their oppressors to overcoming the disunity that marks Christians.
He said that the “unity for which we pray requires inner conversion, both shared and individual,” and it cannot be “limited to cordiality and cooperation.” Instead, Christians must accept “all the elements of unity which God has conserved for us.”
Ecumenism, the Pope stated, is not an optional extra for Catholics but is “the responsibility of the entire Church and of all the baptized.” Christians, he said, must make praying for unity an “integral part” of their prayer life, “especially when people from different traditions come together to work for victory in Christ over sin, evil, injustice and the violation of human dignity.”
Pope Benedict then touched on the lack of unity in the Christian community, which he said “hinders the effective announcement of the Gospel and endangers our credibility.” Evangelizing formerly Christian countries and spreading the Gospel to new places will be “more fruitful if all Christians together announce the truth of the Gospel and Jesus Christ, and give a joint response to the spiritual thirst of our times,” he explained.
The Pope concluded his comments with the hope that this year’s Week of Prayer for Christian Unity will lead to “increased shared witness, solidarity and collaboration among Christians, in expectation of that glorious day when together we will all be able to celebrate the Sacraments and profess the faith transmitted by the Apostles.”
The general audience finished with Pope Benedict addressing pilgrims in various languages, including greeting a group of men and women from the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps, before leading the crowd in the Our Father and imparting his apostolic blessing.
Yes you can...you can make a choice to do otherwise...sit back and hear what the Spirit of God is saying to the "churches"...and then confirm those teachings with the only source of truth...thru Christ and His word He gave us to do so with.
I'm certain the catholic church will always have those who attempt to defend it's false teachings and traditions of men. ( And interesting you would refer to it as "her"), for truth and falsehood will always be in conflict one against the other...until Christ comes. It has been so since the enemy of God was cast to earth.
Keep in mind those who are in Christ are doing what they've been instructed to do.. defend the truth by refuting falsehoods and that by His word...just as He did...and that was against the falsehood of religious teachers of His day who were putting heavy weights on the shoulders of people they were never intended to carry...so too does catholicism today.
Catholicism teaches to defend their Pope/Leadership and their denomination, it's rituals and practices.
Thus there will be conflict... Catholicism remains in the dark and therefore it's membership for the most part.
***Yes you can...you can make a choice to do otherwise***
No, I can’t.
Defense of the faith is rooted in Scripture and it is important that all Christians know their faith and be ready to give defense of it or explain it.
***.and then confirm those teachings with the only source of truth...thru Christ and His word He gave us to do so with.***
It is what I have done for years now.
****false teachings and traditions of men. ***
I do not find the teachings of the Church false.
**** for truth and falsehood will always be in conflict one against the other...until Christ comes. It has been so since the enemy of God was cast to earth.****
Yes, it has, from the very beginning, and that is why we have Scripture and why we have the Church to guide us to the truth found in it.
***Keep in mind those who are in Christ are doing what they’ve been instructed to do.. defend the truth by refuting falsehoods and that by His word...just as He did...and that was against the falsehood of religious teachers of His day who were putting heavy weights on the shoulders of people they were never intended to carry...so too does catholicism today.***
I have no problem with those who defend what they believe. But, here, that is not what is done. Falsehoods are given against the Church as if they are truth and they are not.
Please, give me examples of what you think are heavy weights on the shoulders of people put there by the Catholic Church.
****Catholicism teaches to defend their Pope/Leadership and their denomination, it’s rituals and practices.****
Catholicism teaches about Christ. Those who defend what is taught are apologists and MOST Catholics haven’t ever engaged in such practice much less been taught how.
****Catholicism remains in the dark and therefore it’s membership for the most part.****
LOL
I said I don't care what CB "sees' bout my posts concerning you. I still don't. I just don't care what he sees. It has no weight with me, his opinion is meaningless.
My 571 was in response to his butting in unasked, a "how about you and him fight." I'm too old to fall for that...I have no problem with my response here. If you have problems with yours, then revise it.
The last thing I have ever thought of Jesus being is a “rebel and a loner”.
He is Scripturally presented as being with people—it was why He came. Emmanuel—God with us.
The only times the Scriptures mentions Him seeking solitude was for prayer. All the rest of the time He was with people, for people, healing people, eating with them, accompanying them in their fishing boats, celebrating weddings with them, gathering them around to hear His counsels, speaking to them in the synagogue. He invited them to be with Him in the Garden of Gethsemane.
“Lo, I am with you always-—yes, to the end of time.”
Rather than being a “rebel”, He called His followers to ful fillment of the Law and Prophets.
“My food is to do the will of the Father” That is not the speech of a “rebel”.
“My kingdom is not of this world, but thou sayest it-—I am a King” He is Prophet, Priest and King.
“Loner and rebel” ? I don’t think so. I really don’t see Scriptural basis for that description.
But this is where Catholicism and Christianity separate....Catholicism teaches defense of their church and what it's heiarcky determines because they are taught by it's leadership to defend them..from the priesthood to the Pope, Bishops etc. and this is because Catholicism teaches it's the source of truth as determined by their leadership and claimed authority.... which it is not....
....They forfeited that authority when their leadership brought in all manner of pagan rituals to appease the pagans they invited into the church...further the leadership desired money and the power it welds...along with additional requirements and all manner of obedience to it's leadership/laws and the Pope. While abusing the name of Christ by stating these were permissible and even required.
Whereas Christians defend Christ and His word with His word and by His Spirit. Because they see the church as the body of Believers.. and accountable to Him rather than a man-made institute and leadership claiming what was never given it.
If you were to pray for someone, do you think this will, will not, or might be efficacious?
Totally stupid.
It has NOTHING to do with “awesome” but that of “stupid”.
The Holy Father is no less than TOTALLY Stupid. EVERYBODY associated with Him is a raging lune.
Because you keep harping about what you think about the Church to me.
And I don't care. It's proven to be just ignorant, weightless assertions and opinions borne on the wind of your own individual opinion and theology which can't stand up to the slightest examination.
So, occasionally when time permits I examine and expose them; other times my replies continue the same theme to illustrate and emphasize their vacuity, asking the still unanswered question: Why should I care?
Hope this answers your question.
We don't form our own *church*. Catholics don't get what the real, true church is according to Scripture. We *ARE* the church, the body of Christ. When we together the church is meeting.
Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”
Please. Jesus followed all the religious traditions of His culture and gathered all manner of people about Him. He did not ‘buck’ the religious systems of His time and He was not a loner.
I see that I did say the religious *system* of the day. Poor choice of words on my part. He didn't buck the religious system in regard to the Law, which he kept perfectly, but rather the religious *traditions* of His day. He bucked the religious tradition of the Pharisees and Sadducees continually and had words with them over it.
And his gathering all people together was NOT what the Jews of those days were all about. They didn't associate with ANYONE who was not full Jew, hence their rejection of the Samaritans.
Matthew 15:1-9 1 Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat.” 3 He answered them, “And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’ 5 But you say, ‘If anyone tells his father or his mother, “What you would have gained from me is given to God,” 6 he need not honor his father.’ So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God. 7 You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said:
8 “‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; 9 in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”
Mark 7:1-13 1 Now when the Pharisees gathered to him, with some of the scribes who had come from Jerusalem, 2 they saw that some of his disciples ate with hands that were defiled, that is, unwashed. 3 (For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they wash their hands properly, holding to the tradition of the elders, 4 and when they come from the marketplace, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions that they observe, such as the washing of cups and pots and copper vessels and dining couches.)
5 And the Pharisees and the scribes asked him, “Why do your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat with defiled hands?” 6 And he said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, “‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; 7 in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ 8 You leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men.”
9 And he said to them, “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition! 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man tells his father or his mother, “Whatever you would have gained from me is Corban”’ (that is, given to God)— 12 then you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or mother, 13 thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do.”
Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.
Galatians 1:11-17 11 For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man's gospel. 12 For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ. 13 For you have heard of my former life in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God violently and tried to destroy it. 14 And I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people, so extremely zealous was I for the traditions of my fathers. 15 But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace, 16 was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone; 17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me, but I went away into Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.
Who is "we."? Define your beliefs that qualify as we and those that don't.
Therein lie the teachers you follow.
There are other alternatives. One is not FORCED to conclude that CB was denying the deity of Christ, no matter how much someone wishes it were so. So, therefore that statement is not accurate.
But again, what I see here is a desperate, grasping at straws kind of desperation, attempt to discredit another FReeper by causing people who may not know any better yet, to think that CB actually does deny the deity of Christ, and therefore that can be used to conclude that nothing else he has to say about Christ or the Bible can be depended on.
Fortunately, we recognize tactics such as those and can counter them with the truth.
When Jesus had His discourse about bread He said this as well....
John 6:35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.
So explain away why we should not take this passage literally as well and conclude that Jesus was made out of wheat or dough? In addition, please explain why people get hungry or thirsty again after taking communion in the Catholic church. After all, if they are literally eating the flesh and blood of Christ, they should also literally neither get hungry nor thirsty ever again. Jesus DID say that, didn't He? Or was He lying?
Of course, in addition Jesus said He was the door and the vine. Please explain why Catholics don't take that literally.... Should He not be made of wood or leaves? Or was He lying there as well?
Or perhaps you could explain why Catholics don't take THIS verse literally?
John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
And as far as this verse in the same chapter....
Why do Catholics not take this literally?
John 6:29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”
And Jesus said this as well
John 10:27-29 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
Why do Catholics not believe in the security of the believer? Or was Jesus lying that He would not lose one of His or that one who believed in Him would NEVER perish?
Those who continue to deny the deity of Christ can fool themselves however they like, but they should get used to the idea of hearing, "I never knew you" from the very Jesus Christ they deny is God.
And again, those words of Jesus are being taken out of context and used in a manner in which Jesus is not going to use them.
FAIL.....
Matthew 7:21-23 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
And again, those words of Jesus are being taken out of context and used in a manner in which Jesus is not going to use them. He's speaking here to people who were appealing to their works to gain salvation, and does not address at all their theology concerning who He is.
Clearly following the traditions of a church does not keep people from misinterpreting Scripture. Sola Scriptura cannot be blamed on that misinterpretation.
I only embrace the teachings of Christ. No matter what another person says, I check it with Scripture. If it matches, that’s good. If it doesn’t, I reject it.
But I don’t accept another’s teachings because they said it. It just turns out that my belief matches theirs because they’re both based on the same Bible. If their teaching is from Scripture, I would have got there anyway. Hearing it may have speeded up the process but I don’t accept stuff just because of who said it.
So, no, I am not any man’s disciple. I am Christ’s disciple, His follower.
Catholics need to get their eyes off man and following men, and a good start would be to realize that not everybody thinks like they’ve been conditioned to think. Just because Catholics have been trained to follow men, doesn’t mean that everyone else does.
966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death."506
The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son's Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians:
In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.507
. . . she is our Mother in the order of grace
The Catholic church teaches that the prayers of Mary can deliver our souls from death.
That's official church teaching. You are obligated to believe it, are you not? Or is the CCC optional?
If you were to pray for someone, do you think this will, will not, or might be efficacious?
That's not an answer to the questions. Try again.
You are obligated to believe it, are you not? Or is the CCC optional?
and.....
Do you believe that Mary's prayers can deliver your soul from death?
"Jesus was a rebel and loner as well as He bucked the religious system of the day."
What a perfect example of someone reading into Scripture what they want to see in it and why the tempting fantasy of "Scripture Alone" always and without fail leads people away from Jesus Christ rather than towards Him.
It's absolutely amazing to see how the same appeal to individual reinterpretation of His Word that was so seductive to Eve still appeals to so many people in spite of it being the very thing that caused the downfall of mankind. On top of repeating the sin of Eve, such folks preach that Christ had no right to delegate His authority to His Apostles and His Church who would then be in authority over the individual Self Worshipers. That's a perfect repetition of Core denying that God the Father had the right to delegate authority to Moses who then could place someone in authority over Core and his followers. It's just incredible that people will claim to read the Scriptures and then mimic in exacting detail what Scriptures point out are grave and damning denials of the authority of God Almighty.
Talk about a wide road, those who have joined the world and worship their Most High and Holy Self by interpreting Scripture to suit their own inclinations have to be among the fastest on the fast track to their own destruction. At least those who claim to believe there is no God or who openly accept false gods are not disguising themselves as Christians while running away from Christ as hard and fast as they can and taking as many others with them as possible. Without a doubt, the devious evil of Satan behind the whole "Sola" revolt which began the powerful delusion of Protestantism and all the derivatives that have flowed from it. Those who could not surrender to Christ revolted against the One True Church the same way their master revolted against God in Heaven.
John 3:14-17 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. 16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
John 10:14-17 14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.
John 14:23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
John 17:6-10 6 “I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. 7 Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you. 8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me. 9 I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours. 10 All mine are yours, and yours are mine, and I am glorified in them.
John 17:20-26 20 “I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, 23 I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me.
24 Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father, even though the world does not know you, I know you, and these know that you have sent me. 26 I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known, that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them.”
We. As in His sheep, true believers in Christ.
You know it’s rare any discussion follows the scriptures given...no comments about hardly ever... which leads me to assume they don’t read them or don’t have any other defense of their position so they just ignore the scriptures and go on with their rants.
Titus 3:9 but avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law. For they are unprofitable and vain.
Titus 3:10 A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid:
Titus 3:11 Knowing that he, that is such an one, is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned by his own judgment.
Those who continue to deny the deity of Christ can fool themselves however they like, but they should get used to the idea of hearing, "I never knew you" from the very Jesus Christ they deny is God.
Actually, when we talk about John 6 and the rest then it’s rare any discussion follows the scriptures given...no comments about hardly ever... which leads me to assume that certain non-Catholics don’t read them or don’t have any other defense of their position so they just ignore the scriptures and go on with their rants.
Perhaps she's doin' the best she can with the tools she's got to work with... :)
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