Posted on 01/03/2012 3:30:48 PM PST by Gamecock
Well you're in a heap of trouble then...
You've got to visit the people in prison...Feed and clothe folks...Or you'll be counted with the goats...
Your religion has been teaching that forever...You'd better get with the program or you'll miss out on the White Throne Judgment...
O come on, you’re not that thick. Surely you can understand the fact that individuals can be fallen while the church’s theology remains OK. Any and all Catholics who want to know the truth know it; it’s just that so many don’t care to know the truth. They want to justify their own actions. Among Protestants, such people can easily find a denomination to tell them what they want to hear. And, sadly, Catholics can probably have little trouble finding a heretical priest. (Case in point: John Kerry, who attended mass at the Paulist Center, rather than risk going to a diocesan church.)
The difference, though, is that the Catholic can know that his priest is a dissident; the Protestant, once convinced of an errant interpretation, has no-one to correct him.
And if you have any doubt that a dissident Catholic knows full well that they are dissident, and not faithful, simply ask them,
Seriously.
Choose any moral topic. Let’s say, birth control. Ask, “Do you agree with the Church’s teaching on birth control?” You’ll find almost no-one who asks, “Whose teaching? You mean the Vatican’s? “ (If you ask 1000 people, You might just get one sophist or two from a leftist political movement, like the NCR, but then again, the NCR has been ordered to stop using “Catholic” in their name.) Nearly to a person, you’ll find they answer “yes” or “no.” Because there’s no confusion about what the Catholic church teaches. They’ll all know exactly what you mean, even those NCR sophists.
So? Are you saying that you are not bound to observe the commandments of God and of the Church, but only to believe??
>> Then how can any catholic “confess” to a Priest as the mediator between them and God....they don’t past the test. <<
That a priest persists in grave sin is gravely harmful. Moreso, when a bishop tolerates the sin, without discipline or correction, or when the sin is notorious or grave. The failure to correct or remove sinful priests is what John Crysostom meant when he said, “The floor of Hell is paved with the skulls of bishops.”
Yet, Chrysostom did not abandon the Catholic Church; and in fact, he argued strenuously that the sacraments conferred by such a bishop or his priests are still valid, so long as the outward signs of the sacrament are present. (Hang out on the Catholic threads, and you’ll read the Catholics protesting “he’s doing it wrong!” all the time!) That’s because it matters not what sins the priest has committed. He is ONLY a mediator; he does not make the sacrament sufficient or not.
Crysostom is not a slanderer. In fact, Crysostom is not even his real name. It’s an appellation he was given by the Catholic Church for speaking the truth, which means, “The Golden Mouth.”
>> Faith in Christ alone is what saves you. Jesus said, “He that believes in him HAS everlasting life.” <<
And if you believe in Him, you will do what he commands.
Suppose a father is pinned inside a burning building. He tells his child, “Just trust in the firemen, and you’ll be safe.” The fireman shows calls to the child, “Come to the window, so we can grab hold of you!” What child would be foolish enough to say, “I don’t have to go to the window! Daddy said that all I have to do is believe you!”
“Believe in me” means, in part, “listen to what I tell you that you need to do.” If Jesus says, “unless you eat of my flesh and drink of my blood, you shall not have life within you,” how can you claim to believe in Him, yet deny you must do these things?
What a damning statement about Catholicism. We have heard that “justification” given by Catholics here.
Well they do learn Catholicism by repetition so no surprise the "canned" responses are similar. Seems to me Rome not only dictates what they have to believe but also the come backs when challenged....thus "canned" responses which rarely have scripture to support them unless twisted or taken out of context.
I have well noted that in third world countries they often incorporate their pagan rituals, idols, etc. into the catholic churches because the ones already within Catholicism are so similar they see it as a license to bring their own within, and doesn't appear Rome sees it as much of a problem for there is little action taken against it that I could see.
It's the same thing which happened during the middle ages...so their reputation for this is just continuing..par for the course.
We CAN'T observe the commandments of God because it impossible for a sin tainted human being to do so, and nobody but anyone who willingly puts themselves under the authority of the Catholic church is bound to obey the RCC.
We are not bound to obey the commandments of God to earn or merit salvation because that's not why the Law was given. The Law was given to lead us to Christ, not as a means of procuring salvation and favor with God.
We are obligated though, as ambassadors of Him, to live lives worthy of His name to bring Him honor and glory.
Not to mention that any true believer hates sin and really doesn't want to sin anyway, even though we all slip and fall.
Romans 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”
So the same hands that molest little boys can consecrate a host to make it holy and serve communion to those little boys and their families and it's all OK because the personal holiness of the life of the priest doesn't have any effect on his ability to perform his priestly duties?
Why do I feel like throwing up?
Galatians 6:7-8 7 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. 8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
“That’s because it matters not what sins the priest has committed. He is ONLY a mediator; he does not make the sacrament sufficient or not.”
The whole concept of “Ex opere operato” has no foundation in the scripture’s sacrficial system.
Heb. 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
Jesus has always been “the Lamb slain” even in the Old Testament sacrficial system.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
That's what they're saying...they can overlook that and in fact it really doesn't matter to them.
Can you even imagine where they put there hands on those boys and then dare to stand before the sacrament table, lift the cup and place a waffer into someones mouth!..and catholics don't seem to mind or they'd be ousting these perverts asap....but they aren't....and that speaks volumes of how deplorable and disgusting the vatican and those who support them are.
>> So the same hands that molest little boys can consecrate a host to make it holy and serve communion to those little boys and their families and it’s all OK because the personal holiness of the life of the priest doesn’t have any effect on his ability to perform his priestly duties? <<
>> Why do I feel like throwing up? <<
No, it’s not all OK; it’s fanastically, greiviously evil. And it’s a stupifying, mind-boggling, jaw-dropping straw man AND non sequitur to suppose that it would be OK.
In that example, what happens is the priest goes straight to Hell to rot in agony for eternity, while the VICTIM, having validly received the Eucharist goes to Heaven IN SPITE OF the wickedness of the priest. How could divine justice be otherwise?
How certain are you of the teachings of the priests and nuns which influenced his belief?
Note he made no mention of "official" teaching of the Catholic Church. His "knowledge" was gained from the teachings of the priests and nuns.
Perhaps it is the priests and nuns you are calling liars?
But now let’s turn the tables on that:
Are YOU supposing that because the priest is a sicko, that the child ALSO is denied salvation? Because that’s the inverse of the position you are suggesting makes you feel like throwing up.
But what is interesting is how can they be sure of any of Catholicisms teachings? there's no way they can be sure, they can only hope whoever they hear is right. I would not be comfortable at all trusting in any “ism”. The man Christ Jesus is the only one to trust ones salvation in and when He said 'It is finished" he meant it..
Once again, and it really is tiring, looking for something which isn't there... But for shame bringing the child's innocence at bay here....again protecting the Priest for his dastardly act by diverting to the child as if he's indirectly to blame......and that's the "inverse" of the position you appear to be carrying.
If what you say is such a ‘grievously evil’ act by a Priest....and deserving of hell as you say....then there is no justification why the Pope and leadership has not outed them whatsoever....and in fact they continue to protect them making them as evil as the pervert who did the act.
Where is the outcry of the church membership...and or at least a grand exodus to protect the children and family members from further harm by these criminals?
Why isn’t there a grand gathering in front of the Vatican to seek justice by the membership? Instead of just the victims and their families. Why isn’t every member crying out that these Priests be outed and that now.?
The silence is overwhelming... which leaves any outside catholicism with the opinion your Priesthood and the perps within it are more significant than it’s members and it’s children....and there is no shame.
By 1990, John Paul II had put a stop to 95% of the sexual abuse, before any of the lawsuits, and before any of the media attention. I’m still waiting for the Southern Baptist Convention to make the very fist steps that the Catholic Church had. Instead, all that comes out from them is, “We’re not Catholic, so we don’t have a problem.”
Which is the appropriate response over that kind of evil, HOWEVER, the Catholic church still says that it doesn't affect the priest's ability to be a priest and administer the sacraments and THAT is just something that I cannot wrap my mind around.
I don't understand how lightning doesn't come right from heaven and fry the priest right there at the altar, but that's just me.
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