Posted on 12/26/2011 6:08:22 PM PST by rzman21
“who is this man that “created” the Catholic Church, in your opinion?”
You think you’re being funny.
Jesus did not create the Catholic Church. Jesus was quite a man though, in fact the only man without sin. The only man who is the Son of God. The only man to die for our sins and pay the price we all deserve.
I concede that the scriptures are not the only pathway to God. This pathway may be found from others of faith, from self-realization, fellowship, and/or prayer as well. But I dare say that you will not concede that the Church is fallible. In this you must, of course, then agree that the Inquisition and any other number of issues created or acquiesced to by the ‘Church’ or parts of the ‘Church’ were not wrong. For the ‘Church’ is the leader in ‘Tradition’ as you put it.
I submit that the ‘Church’ consists of Men. Mankind is fallible and unable to avoid sin - which is why it was necessary for Christ to die thereby cleansing our sins and opening our path to Heaven. To believe that Man is without sin is naive at best. To believe that the ‘Church’ is the only capable interpreter of God’s Word is near blasphemy in that it nears nullifying Christ’s words that through he alone may we find the Kingdom of Heaven. Not through the Church, but through Christ are we delivered.
Faith does not come from buildings or bones or organizations. Though objects may indeed be imbued with power by God in order to bring more of the Faithful to him or assist them in the struggles on earth, the worship of the object instead of the Lord who imbued the objects is sacrilege. I have known “men of faith” who were fallen and could not see it, and I have seen men of the world who struggled day to day and were so faithful of Christ’s love that I could only hope to achieve a semblence.
I do not say this to decry your faith, but to strengthen it beyond mere faith in the ‘Church’ and fallible men and instead to arrive at a bedrock of faith in the salvation of Christ to gain a place in the presence of the Lord.
Did Jesus exist prior to being born to Mary and Joseph?
“”As Luther said we are saved by faith alone, but faith that is alone is not faith.””
If you follow the truth far enough, it becomes experiential and you do not just “believe based on faith” but “know based upon experience.” This is much stronger.
The problem is that most Christians who claim Jesus as their savior, treat him like a lifeguard that will pluck them out after they are drowning (die.) Which would you sooner have, A lifeguard that rescues you when you are drowning, or a lifeguard that teaches you how to swim? While Jesus has the ability to rescue the drowning, He preferred to teach his Father’s Will. He wanted people to learn how to swim. Remember his words to the disciples when He sent them out. “The things that I do and more, you too shall do in my name.” That’s what happens when you become Christ like in your personal life.
Some of the best scripture interpretation from a Catholic viewpoint of learning how to swim can be found by reading St Theresa of Avila’s “Interior Castle.”
you misunderstand me. The Holy Spirit has been leading the Church for 2,000 years!!
the Holy Spirit is not the author of confusion and He is not going to lead men to believe one doctrine for 1,500 years and then lead other men to believe a completely opposite doctrine since the 16th century.
we believe Jesus when He said the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church and that He would be with us ALWAYS, even to the end of the world.
was the Holy Spirit and the Word enough for the eunuch in Acts 8?
Throw in a Catholic Church and you have five churches not obeying the TEN COMMANDMENTS FROM GOD, So, what’s your point? My point is they all ignore Holy Scripture.
Getting back to your original posting of the image I responded to, do you really think Jesus Christ is still a child in his mother’s lap/arms/womb? Is Jesus Christ still dependent on her, in any way, for his sustenance, his power, his status? Does Jesus draw from her, in any way, his identity and his attributes?
LOL, if they don’t oppose the other doctrines, why not fellowship and worship with each other as the Bible commands in John 17 and 1 Corinthians 1?
Do you attend Baptist Church on occasion?
Well, that’s where the magnificat is. I thought perhaps you didn’t know.
“I accept that the Holy Spirit operates over time and collectively to those who best understand.”
Remember the parable of the new wine in the old container, or the new cloth to mend the old garment. So it is with the Holy Spirit. While we are still full of ourselves, we have no room for the Holy Spirit. Thus the experience of being born again. The intellect is the tool of the ego which serves to build up the old. This is why the humble and meek shall inherit the kingdom. You actually become strongest by realizing how weak (and dumb) we actually are!
i’m not being funny.
you said a man created the Catholic Church.
i am merely asking you who this man was, since you disagree it was Jesus Christ.
we know Luther started the Lutheran Church, we know Henry VIII started the Church of England, Campbell the Church of Christ.
someone must have started the Catholic Church, who was it?
Is God bound by the laws of time?
LOL! I can just imagine you trying to tell Christ that at the moment of your death.
“”Eph 4:4-7
(4) There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
(5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
(6) One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
(7) But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.””
One God, however there are many rooms within that mansion.
I didn’t ask you for a link, I asked you a question. A question you appear to be avoiding. Its a yes or no question, pretty simple. Your answer will be informative.
Talk about a divergence of belief.
you confuse personal holiness and sinful men with teaching true doctrine.
the leaders of the Church are fallible men and subject to sin as any other man in their personal lives.
but when the Pope teaches from the chair, the Holy Spirit protects him from error, the same when the Bishops speak in a Church Council as in Jerusalem and Nicea.
“ho is this someone authorized by Jesus in Matthew 28 to teach? THE CHURCH.””
Per Jesus, the pathway to finding thy Father is within.” You will never find Him you you surrender to the authority of the church.” God likes a flat organizational chart. i.e. everyone is to have their own direct relationship. Not through a leader. Listen to the words of the teacher. Evaluate the credibility of his words based upon the fruit on his tree. But never surrender your authority to the teacher. As what you have given to someone else is not available for you to surrender to God.
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