Posted on 12/12/2011 7:13:56 AM PST by Colofornian
“No, we don’t worship Joseph Smith,” I explained to the investigator. “We respect him as a prophet.”
“You mean, like Mohamed?” he asked.
“No, more like Moses, or John the Baptist.”
It was a standard comparison that I had used repeatedly on my mission. Joseph Smith is just a prophet. He’s just like John the Baptist, or Moses, or Peter, James, and John.
Of course, there are a few problems with that characterization, aren’t there?
Chief among them — if Joseph Smith is really just like John the Baptist, then why don’t we treat the two similarly? And despite doctrinal protests, we really don’t.
In the current hymnal, there are no hymns about Moses. None about John the Baptist (though Jesus’s baptism is referenced a few times). A few cursory mentions of Peter, in places like What Was Witnessed (#11), and implied mention in #105, Master the Tempest is Raging. There are some mentions of Adam — more than any other Biblical prophet, probably — as well as Enoch.
In contrast, we get two very well-known, oft-sung hymns focusing directly on Joseph Smith: Praise to the Man, and Oh How Lovely was the Morning. Prior hymnals contained many more: The Seer; Blest was the Day when the Prophet and Seer; O Give me Back my Prophet; and so on.
The same goes for church art. The average church building might have pictures of Joseph Smith alone; of the First Vision; of the priesthood restoration; of translation. The Gospel Art kit reflects this. It contains ten pictures of Joseph Smith. There are six pictures of Jesus’ apostles, four pictures of Moses, Lehi, and Nephi, and three each of Adam and Daniel...
...the personal nature of much...music and art — Praise to the Man — cuts in the other direction...
(Excerpt) Read more at timesandseasons.org ...
#296 - The Seer, Joseph, The Seer (LDS Hymns 1948)
[John Taylor]
The Seer, Joseph, the Seer!
I’ll sing of the Prophet ever dear,
The Prophet ever dear;
His equal cannot be found
By searching the wide world around.
With Gods he soared in the realms of day,
And men he taught the heavenly way,
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“His equal cannot be found
By searching the wide world around”
again blasphemy...
THe LORD Jesus Christ said all Christians are equal..
all of you are equal as brothers and sisters. Matthew 23:8
However as Joey Smith was never a Christian he would be less than the Christians...
He would certainly have not been equal enough...
Although we did sing “Come come ye saints”
“Israel, Isreal God is calling” (which I didn’t know was really “What a friend we have in Jesus” at the time),
Praise to the Man,
Spirit of God,
Oh how lovely was the Morning
#19 - We Thank Thee, O God, for a Prophet ,
#11 - What Was Witnessed in the Heavens? ;
#49 - Adam-ondi-Ahman ;
#252 - Put Your Shoulder to the Wheel
#292 - O My Father
and my all time favorite -
#284 - If You Could Hie to Kolob ; those kind of songs alot. And that was pretty much true in ALL my wards both in CA and UT. I still know most of those by heart.
I remember getting yelled at by my RS president for having an Amy Grant cassette in my car because it was ‘Christian rock’. oy vey.
...putting the Scripture out there and letting folks come to their own conclusion...
We sing a lot of ‘contempoary’ chrstian songs these days at my church.
Does MORMONism have anything similar in their services?
Re: Joseph Smith stands at the gate to Mormon heaven.
We don’t teach that he judges us.
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Dont read more into this than is there...
Mormonism teaches that Joey Smith is the judge who stands at the gate to the Mormon after life...
This Mormon doctrine is a lie right out of Hell...
The LORD Jesus Christ is our judge, not the false prophet Joey Smith...
The LORD Jesus Christ said to Tadpole, “I AM the Way, the Truth, and the Way. No man or woman comes to the Father except through Me.” John 14:6
Mormon doctrine on Joey Smith the judge of the Mormons can be found at Post #16
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2819268/posts?page=16#16
Thank you Elsie
You are a one-in-a-million fellow!!
(Or 12 million or 14... YMMV)
Dang!!
Now we'll end up having an endless discussion on what SINCERE is!
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Deconstructing Linus: Portrait of a True Believing Pumpkinist as a Young Man "Each year on Halloween night, the Great Pumpkin rises out of the pumpkin patch that he thinks is the most sincere and flies through the air with his pack of toys for all the good little children in the world." No. This is about sincerity, a subjective standard by any definition. |
I wonder if Linus blames himself every year for not picking the most sincere pumpkin patch for his vigil?
I wonder if other Great Pumpkinists castigate Linus by asserting if he were more in tune with the Spirit of the Great Pumpkin, if he were more prayerful, if he read the Holy Writ of the Great Pumpkin with a greater sincerity, that he could indeed rise to the challenge and, via the Spirit, be lead to choose the most sincere pumpkin patch?
I wonder how many years Linus will feel guilty for this failure and blame himself for receiving no answer no matter how sincere he believes himself to be?
I wonder if Linus ever gets frustrated because there is no objective way to measure sincerity? And if he realizes there is no objective standard for such a thing, I wonder if it ever creeps into his mind that his annual mission is nothing more than mindless busywork?
I wonder, does Linus ever has doubts?
For the time being, however, Linus will put aside his doubts and, perhaps as a means of proving his sincerity, begins to proselyte among his friends for converts. Most shrug him off. But Sally, who has a crush on him, believes Linus and agrees to spend Halloween in Linus’ Pumpkin Patch.
Linus then explains that by using positive language and positive thinking, they may be able to attract the Great Pumpkin to their Patch. He also cautions Sally that negative language and negative thinking will cause the Great Pumpkin to pass them by.
There is no room for doubt when one is a Great Pumpkinist. One should never say if the Great Pumpkin comes but always when the Great Pumpkin comes. "One little slip like that, can cause the Great Pumpkin to pass you by!" It’s hard to imagine a benevolent icon such as the Great Pumpkin punishing TBPs (True Believing Pumkinists) for such a minor infraction, but there you have it.
Sally: The Birth of an Ex-Pumpkinist
Because Sally loves her “sweet baboo” Linus, she sets aside her own Halloween plans of trick-or-treating and a Halloween party in order to spend the evening in the Pumpkin Patch. She converts to Great Pumpkinism because she loves Linus. She respects his opinion. And she wants to make him happy and be supportive. And besides, if it’s really true, WOW! Wouldn’t that be fantastic?
But in the end, the only Being that shows up in the Pumpkin Patch is Snoopy. Linus, believing Snoopy to be the Great Pumpkin, swoons into an ecstatic faint, happy in the knowledge that he has finally deciphered the Great Pumpkin’s standard for sincerity. But, alas, it is a misplaced hope, and when Linus regains consciousness, there is not only no Great Pumpkin there to reward him, there is one upset little girl.
"I was robbed! I spent the whole night waiting for the Great Pumpkin when I could have been out for tricks or treats! Halloween is over and I missed it! You blockhead! You kept me up all night waiting for the Great Pumpkin and all that came was a beagle!"
"I didn't get a chance to go out for tricks or treats! And it was all your fault! I'll sue! What a fool I was. And I could have had candy apples and gum! And cookies and money and all sorts of things! But no, I had to listen to you! You blockhead. What a fool I was. Trick or treats come only once a year. And I missed it by sitting in a pumpkin patch with a blockhead. You owe me restitution!"
Luckily for Sally, she only missed one Halloween. And though she is demanding restitution, because her participation was voluntary, she will never receive said restitution. She’ll simply have to accept the experience as one of life’s absurdities and move on.
However, one can hope that this experience has made Sally a more skeptical person, so that the next time she is presented with such fantastic claims, she’ll perhaps be inclined to do her research before committing any time, money or emotion.
After all, fantastic claims should be supported by fantastic evidence, right?
The question now becomes, has this experience made Linus a skeptic? After yet again not having his Pumpkin Patch recognized as sincere and after having endangered his friendship with Sally, will he continue to believe?
In spite of a complete and utter lack of evidence pointing to the existence of the Great Pumpkin, and a complete and utter lack of the Great Pumpkin’s Promise ever having been fulfilled, Linus is a True Believing Pumpkinist to the core. To even admit the possibility that he may be wrong would be to negate all those years of hard work and sincere belief. Linus simply cannot turn his back on his belief.
So if Linus doesn't become an ex-Pumpkinist, what is his strategy? Well, he’s going to keep on trying, isn't he?
"What do you mean, 'stupid'? Just wait until next year. I'll find a pumpkin patch, and I'll sit in that pumpkin patch and it'll be a sincere pumpkin patch, and the Great Pumpkin will come! Just you wait and see! I'll sit in that pumpkin patch, and I'll see the Great Pumpkin. Just wait until next year!"
HMMmm... I'll wait for your further input on this while I try to figger out if he'll participate on his OWN behalf of what LAWS applied to himself.
Since the 'law' was given to GOD's 'chosen people', the Israelites; we can know that for us GENTILES...
I think I'll pass...
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
Re: Joseph Smith stands at the gate to Mormon heaven.
We don’t teach that he judges us.
Only that he provides the measuring stick by which we are judged.
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But Joey Smith doesnt provide anything...
Joey Smith has nothing to do with judgement...
Joey Smith has nothing to do with God...
Joey Smith never even ever met God the father nor God the Son the LORD Jesus Christ...
No man was ever given authority over the salvation of mankind ...
nor any rfesponsibility...
other than the Word of God who becamne flesh and dwelt amongst us as Jesus...
if a man could save himself or others then God Himself would not have come to Earth to do so ...
There is nobody with the “measuring stick” to judge but the LORD Jesus Christ...
The LORD Jesus Christ Himself is the “measuring stick”
and Joey Smith doesnt own the rights to Him...
On the “measuring stick” of the Blood of the LORD Jesus Christ, Joey Smith comes up short...
Dont bother checking desparately with FARMS/FAIR/Ldsorg...
They dont know any better than you do about the things pertaining to the judgement of God...
The LORD Jesus Christ earned the right to judge us and He alone...
by His shed Blood on the Cross and His death on the Cross and Resurrection...
Don't feel too badly, as a bunch of Christian preachers probably said the same! ;^)
I don't.
I can tell you that 55-60% of Utah is Lds. And that the overwhelming majority of them (as is also the case in Eastern Idaho and Western Wyoming) are heritage Mormons.
As you move beyond the Mountain West, the greater the likelihood of convert Mormons.
For one thing the sub-cultural bars are lower beyond the Mountain West...
Interesting that not one verse in all of Tanach(OT) confirms this. Nowhere does it say that you must beleive in a messiah as a criteria to be "saved".
Then what DO the Receivers of the LAW have to 'do' to be 'saved'?
Well lets take a look at what G-d says...It is actually quite simple.
6 With what shall I come to the LORD And bow myself before the God on high? Shall I come to Him with burnt offerings, With yearling calves? 7 Does the LORD take delight in thousands of rams, In ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I present my firstborn for my rebellious acts, The fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? 8 He has told you, O man, what is good; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love [c]kindness, And to walk [d]humbly with your God
Prov 16: 6 By lovingkindness and truth iniquity is atoned for, And by the [d]fear of the LORD one keeps away from evil.
Dan 4:27 Therefore, O king, may my advice be pleasing to you: [aa]break away now from your sins by doing righteousness and from your iniquities by showing mercy to the poor, in case there may be a prolonging of your prosperity.’
Hos 6:6 For I delight in loyalty rather than sacrifice, And in the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.
Prov 21:3 To do righteousness and justice Is desired by the LORD more than sacrifice.
Isaiah 1: 16 “Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean; Remove the evil of your deeds from My sight. Cease to do evil, 17 Learn to do good; Seek justice, Reprove the ruthless, [g]Defend the orphan, Plead for the widow. 18 “Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the LORD, “Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool.
Jonah 3:5 Then the people of Nineveh believed in God; and they called a fast and put on sackcloth from the greatest to the least of them.... and let [c]men call on God earnestly that each may turn from his wicked way and from the violence which is in [d]his hands. 9 Who knows, God may turn and relent and withdraw His burning anger so that we will not perish.” 10 When God saw their deeds, that they turned from their wicked way, then God relented concerning the calamity which He had declared He would [e]bring upon them. And He did not do it.
END OF QUOTES
That is a small sample. To summarize: Persue G-d and Him only, seek righteousness, turn from the bad, help people, pray, obey G-d and when you blow it, repent with humility and sincerity.
I kinda remember something about LAWS and PENALTIES...
Not valid?
There are 613 commandments. About 1/3 of them are related to temple activities and not applicable to today. The remainder are applicable (and the vast majority are easy to do).
The penalties were for a time when there was a Temple, Sanhedrin, Beit Din, a King...a time of a theocracy.
G-d knew (obviously)that there would be extended exiles. Deut 29:21 and Hosea 3:3-5. The penalties are not as they were before as in the theocracy and the exile itself is punishment. For the last 2000 years the Jews have been severely punished, at times far beyond what is required and that is why Isaiah says: 1 “Comfort, O comfort My people,” says your God. 2 “Speak kindly to Jerusalem; And call out to her, that her warfare has ended, That her iniquity has been removed, That she has received of the LORD’S hand Double for all her sins.”
As we go now go into the period of redemption, things will be different.
Jeremiah31 1 “At that time,” declares the LORD, “I will be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be My people.” ...“I have loved you with an everlasting love; Therefore I have drawn you with lovingkindness. 4 “Again I will build you and you will be rebuilt, O virgin of Israel! ....They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
Ezekiel says:13 I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries and bring them to their own land; and I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, by the streams, and in all the inhabited places of the land. ....and they will not endure the insults of the nations anymore. 30 Then they will know that I, the LORD their God, am with them, and that they, the house of Israel, are My people,” declares the Lord GOD. 31 “As for you, My sheep, the sheep of My pasture, you are men, and I am your God,”
....24 For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances..
.... And I will [h]place them and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in their midst forever. 27 My dwelling place also will be with them; and I will be their God, and they will be My people. 28 And the nations will know that I am the LORD who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forever.”’”
END OF QUOTES:
So yes, the Law is forever...penalties are not as they were since there is no longer a theocracy...G-d will punish each according to his own iniquity (jer 31) IF THERE IS NO REPENTANCE...in the era of redemption Israel will be restored...The nations will see the G-d calls Israel his "own people"...something which is a promise of G-d and would be impossible if we were theologically in error. He will cleanse us and He says " I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.And I will take the heart of stone out of their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, 20 that they may walk in My statutes and keep My ordinances and do them. Then they will be My people, and I shall be their God. The law remains...punishment will occur by G-d...until there is a restored Kingdom...sacrifices will then return...but sin will be greatly diminished through the new covenant(To Judah and Israel not the gentiles)...so we (and the whole gentile world) will be transformed by the messianic era. Not by a god-man hybrid (such a hybrid is NEVER taught in the OT) but by G-d Himself.
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