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Scanian you stated:”Stick to the Bible-—a REAL translation, not the JW’s version-—and see what you conclude.”

I like the idea of sticking to the bible. I will use the ASV. There are others that are in complete agreement with the scriptures I will use.

I would like to limit the discussion to scriptures their meaning and logical conclusions. I will not be inclined to respond to opinions of non-scriptural sources. If you want to reference a scripture, at least identify the source, book, chapter and verse.

The following scriptures with associated comments provide the basis for my statement that I don't see how anyone can claim Jesus is God(Jehovah).

SOURCE: The American Standard Version Online Bible (ASV)

Colossians 1:15 (Jesus)who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].

John 5:37 And the Father that sent me, he hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his form.

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he that is from God, he hath seen the Father.

John 20:17 Jesus saith to her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended unto the Father: but go unto my brethren, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.

John 20:31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, [even] the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified [it] by his angel unto his servant John;

Revelation 1:2 who bare witness of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, [even] of all things that he saw.

Revelation 3:14 And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God:

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith Jehovah, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts: I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God.

IN SUMMARY:

Jesus says NO MAN HAS SEEN GOD, Jesus say's God is his father.

John says Jesus is the SON OF GOD

JEHOVAH says BESIDES ME THERE IS NO GOD The Bible says Jesus is of creation. HE WAS CREATED!!

Chears:>) EasyDoesIt

Interesting point eazdit, and that's what Jehovah's Witnesses will say -- count-your-change's post also points out this persistence

But how can one ignore the fact that Jesus does things (like forgiving sins, casting out demons in His own power) that only God can do? How can one ignore that He used the same terms "I am" as God in the OT did? The Jew's crucified Him because they believed He was blasphemous to call Himself God.

to take 1 Colossians 1:15 by itself is to ignore the context as well as the sentences and not note that it says 15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; is wrong

Note also that Colossians refers to Christ as "through Him all things were made", namely that He was before creation and time came into being. He was begotten, the first-born from all eternity, never coming into being.

First-born does not refer to the sense of time, but first in eminence -- hence Isaac, Jacob, Ephraim get blessings of the first-born.

Col 1:16 goes on to say for in him were all things created -- all things were created in Him -- if He was just a creature, then HE was created in Him? No, Jesus Christ was the Creator of all things, He is/was/will forever be God

The Bible says Jesus is of creation. HE WAS CREATED!!

Poor guy. The Bible says nowhere that Jesus was created. He was the "firstborn over all creation." This is a title indicating his position of authority with respect to the creation. If he's the eternal son of the Father, the Father's one and only begotten son (or as the Greek in John chapter 1 has it, "God the only begotten" and "the Word was God", not "a god" as the NWT incorrectly translates it, or Titus 2:11-14, "our great God and savior, Jesus Christ"), he's still the "firstborn over all creation," since who has greater authority over creation than the one who created it and who was born into the human race? What you're doing is about the same as someone saying, "Oh, so he's the lamb of God, huh? So you Christians believe that he's part animal, right?"

Furthermore, things must be understood in a hierarchical way. If Elizabeth understood Mary's unborn child to be her Lord in the context of her Jewish faith, then there's really only one option and everything else has to be understood subordinate to that: she considered Jesus to be Yahweh born into the human race. His father who sent him into the world, whose nature was also God, is someone, according to him, no one has previously seen, except as he has revealed himself through Jesus.

Also, John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he that is from God, he hath seen the Father. == that is not analogous to your later point of "No man has seen God" -- Jesus Christ, as Colossians 1 which YOU referred to points out that Jesus is the image of the invisible God -- the image of God -- Jesus IS God.

As john 5:18 says called God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

john 1 says John 1:1–3: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

The Word WAS God, from the beginning