Posted on 11/26/2011 3:33:54 PM PST by Iggles Phan
My problem with the 'Rapture' (pre-millenial; pre-tribulation) teaching is that it forces its adherents to actually REVERSE the Person of Jesus Christ to the Devil.
That's correct.
In the 'Rapture' (or Dispensational) scheme the believer is asked to take the Person of Daniel's 70th Week (Who is Jesus Christ at the Cross) described in Chapter 9, verse 27a:
"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, ..."
... and reverse this 'he' to mean a 'future Antichrist'.
Are you confused?
Is this Jesus Christ or Antichrist?
1. The Historic View.
This view is typified by the 1599 Geneva Bible notes. These are the notes of John Calvin, Miles Coverdale, and John Knox to name a few.
1599 Geneva Bible Notes on Daniel 9:27a:
"By the preaching of the gospel he confirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles. Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection."
It's pretty clear that the Reformers believed that Christ was the Person of Daniel's Great 70th Week.
2. The Modernist View (Dispensational).
In contrast however, compare this historic view to the Dispensational view typified in the Ryrie Study Notes (1978). Look who the modernists assign to this very same Person in Daniel 9:27a:
"The prince of verse 26, the Antichrist previously introduced in 7:8, 24-26, who will make a pact with many (of the Jewish people) at the beginning of the tribulation period. But in the middle of the week (i.e., 3 1/2 years later) Antichrist will break his covenant and desecrate the Temple by demanding worship of himself in it."
The difference couldn't be farther apart.
Historic Christianity says that Jesus fulfilled the 70th week AT THE CROSS, but Rapture Christianity (Dispensationalism) says that the Devil fulfills it in a 're-built' temple.
Therefore, Dispensationalism is no less than a frontal assault on the Cross of Christ. It reverses Jesus Christ to the Devil. It is malicious and a pernicious doctrine.
Remember, this Dispensational view was NEVER known until 1830. That's why it is a Modernist view. It was invented by JN Darby and popularized by CI Scofield, two con-men to Christianity.
In the 20th century, carpetbaggers such as Hal Lindsey, Tim LaHaye, Jack (and Rexella) Van Impe, John Hagee and others have made fame and fortune off of this con game. They have marketed this 'Rapture' theology like a cheap box of laundry detergent on TV and radio, and with videos and books.
My hope and prayer is that the Church starts to wake up out of its slumber and starts challenging its pastors, ministries, and teachers. The Cross of Christ is at stake here!
For the Glory of Christ Jesus. Amen.
Jesus is the truth. His word is truth.
Nobody else and nothing else.
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To: Iggles Phan
WHAT UNMITIGATED BALDERDASH NONSENSE HORSE FEATHERS!
Incredible.
**
Please Quix, tell us how you really feel.
I completely agree with you. Jesus is the reason that I became Catholic.
A number of the posters here say they take the Bible literally.
Really?
John 6:45-72
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
45It is written in the prophets: And they shall all be taught of God. Every one that hath heard of the Father, and hath learned, cometh to me.
46Not that any man hath seen the Father; but he who is of God, he hath seen the Father.
47Amen, amen I say unto you: He that believeth in me, hath everlasting life.
48I am the bread of life.
49Your fathers did eat manna in the desert, and are dead.
50This is the bread which cometh down from heaven; that if any man eat of it, he may not die.
51I am the living bread which came down from heaven.
52If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever; and the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world.
53The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
54Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you.
55He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day.
56For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed.
57He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him.
58As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me.
59This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead. He that eateth this bread, shall live for ever.
60These things he said, teaching in the synagogue, in Capharnaum.
61Many therefore of his disciples, hearing it, said: This saying is hard, and who can hear it?
62But Jesus, knowing in himself, that his disciples murmured at this, said to them: Doth this scandalize you?
63If then you shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
64It is the spirit that quickeneth: the flesh profiteth nothing. The words that I have spoken to you, are spirit and life.
65But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning, who they were that did not believe, and who he was, that would betray him.
66And he said: Therefore did I say to you, that no man can come to me, unless it be given him by my Father.
67After this many of his disciples went back; and walked no more with him.
68Then Jesus said to the twelve: Will you also go away?
69And Simon Peter answered him: Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
70And we have believed and have known, that thou art the Christ, the Son of God.
71Jesus answered them: Have not I chosen you twelve; and one of you is a devil?
72Now he meant Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon: for this same was about to betray him, whereas he was one of the twelve.
Do you believe that Christ told us the truth?
I do believe deception has begun it's ugly and dangerous rein...it is one thing to see it in the world outside of the church, but to see it within the church ... with it's mask off... and 'few who see' it for what it is hard to understand.
I do think this has much to do with the satanic push, for he knows his time is short//..and it's a hard push for the integration of the churches into a one world representative body. But in order to do that they have to have 'a platform within the church' that's acceptable....and a body of believers who are ignorant of the things of God as it's written. Looks like people are ready for just that.
We knew this would come...just as we now see the formation of the one world monetary system in view and actually operating in it's early stages.......and just as these monetary groups and representatives of governance worldwide work on behalf of the enemy of men's souls to position the world monetarily so to the clergy and churches "in name only" are being manipulated forward.
I never thought I'd see so much activity converging at one time in my lifetime...but it's here and moving rapidly now on all ends of the spectrum...and all fronts.
All this does indicate we are fast approaching the day we're out of here! But alas so many have become fools and little time left for them to turn....they can't see that the knowlege they've been told of Christ now will be taken from them, and they will fall for the great deception as it increases....just as the deceptions they now believe have fooled them that same deception will lead them to believe the great deception when it comes across the world.
Who here says they take the entire Bible literally? The only time I recall hearing that argument was from the lips of evolutionists trying to discredit creationists.
Absolutely...and on that note I think that is also why the rapture will occur before Israel goes thru her trial and testing. I don't know that we could bare up 'seeing' what she'll be going thru before the Lord steps in and stops it all.
I believe without doubt the Christians then will be given an ability to bare what they will see and know... but it will no doubt be heartwretching and gutwretching just the same. Just reading about it, and knowing Israels history under persecution and hatred brings one to tears. What is ahead for them defies imagination...and no wonder the Lord asks us to pray for Israel...for He knows who of Israel will makeup the Remanant...may God enable each one even now and when that time comes to bare it.
Are you familiar with the original Greek in that passage: harpazo?
You found that under "h" in your lexicon, right?
Jesus is the truth. His word is truth.
Nobody else and nothing else.
Well put.
I rather like Quix's 'toned down' expressions...much more appealing and correctly stated than what you might otherwise hear and see were it not for the guidelines. After all God does get angry and He uses His people to express that as much as He does His love.
Quix has spoken tastefully and accurately ...just be glad you aren't in his path when God uses him to cut loose...and that there are moderators who God Himself respects the authority He's given them.
Go to post 382# I forgot to include your name since it’s about you.
ABSOLUTELY.
It still boggles my mind and I’ve been studying it since 1962 in some respects and since 1965 in others.
Incredibly speeding up the pace now.
In China—folks believing in the 2nd Coming; Rapture; miracles etc. have been persecuted the most as the most prohibited.
Now IN THE USA! . . . such folks are considered terrorists.
The founding fathers must ‘be spinning like tops in their graves!’
If the bread and wine are transformed into the literal flesh and blood of Jesus, it's going to happen whether anyone believes it or not.
If it's not going to happen and be merely symbolic, then no amount of praying, chanting, hand motions, or ritual is going to cause the change to happen.
If we're going to get into believing the literal words of Jesus, what about these?????
Jesus says that all we need to do for eternal life is believe in Him. He says NOTHING else about rituals or rules or sacraments.
John 3:14-16 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. 16"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 6:28-29 Then they said to him, "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?" Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent."
John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."
We are secure and currently HAVE eternal life.
John 10:27-29 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?"
John 14:6 6Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
OOps...that’s 389 post...sheesh!
Do YOU????
In verses 50 and 51 Jesus said that He was the living bread that came down from heaven. He was made of flesh and bone and blood, not dough.
In addition, he said that if someone ate that bread, they would never die.
I've yet to meet any 2,000 year old Catholics. Do you expect to die?
In verse 64, He says the Spirit gives life and the flesh profits nothing and the words He spoke were SPIRIT and life.
The flesh doesn't count.
Don't you believe His words?
Exactly, take one verse out of the entire discourse of Jesus Christ, the Messiah, the only Begotten Son of God.
Makes sense to me. Really, is that the best you can do?
LOL, Quix has never been tasteful and accurate. God has not appointed him. He just thinks so.
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We are secure and currently HAVE eternal life.
***
Verses, taken out of context. Jesus also says to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
You believe you have eternal life. You take your favorite verses and believe that is only what you need for eternal life. Those few verses you expound are not the end all of everything. You must believe it all to have eternal life.
New Living Translation (©2007)
And you will be my kingdom of priests, my holy nation.' This is the message you must give to the people of Israel."
English Standard Version (©2001)
and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. These are the words that you shall speak to the people of Israel.”
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words that you shall speak to the sons of Israel."
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
Young's Literal Translation
and ye -- ye are to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation: these are the words which thou dost speak unto the sons of Israel.'
THE MESSAGE version:
The whole Earth is mine to choose from, but you're special: a kingdom of priests, a holy nation.'
IIRC, There are other passages indicating God's DETERMINATION to use ISRAEL as a NATION OF PRIESTS before Him in behalf of the rest of the world, indeed, all Creation.
IIRC, The Church is slated to serve with or in a similar serving, ruling and reigning role but not an identical role. Uriel 2012 can correct me on such scores.
The grafted-in folks . . . will NEVER replace the main trunk.
The main trunk is Christ-not Israel. He is the vine. WE are the branches. To be sure we are grafted in but we're grafted to the vine.
Evidently you are forgetting that The LION of JUDAH is JEWISH! LOL.
This business of benignly or with prejudice flushing Israel from the roles &/or rolls of THE REDEEMED IS UNBIBLICAL TO THE MAX.
They were chosen and designed to be central to the redemption of mankind and of all Creation. GOD CREATED THEM AND CHOSE THEM FOR THAT ROLE.
He 'condescended' to graft us in to THAT PLAN!
It is NOT the other way around, from GOD'S PERSPECTIVE! Folks had best get on board with GOD'S perspective!
What you're really saying is that non-believing Jews like Ahab, Caiaphas, etc, are also graphed in simply because they are Jews.
NOT AT ALL!
Each individual stands before God on their own whether Israelite or gentile. God examines the hearts more than the DNA when it comes to a RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM, FACE TO FACE, HEART TO HEART.
However, as to the NATION of Israel--HE HAS PARTICULAR SPECIFIC PLANS FOR THE NATION AND THEY WILL BE CARRIED OUT TO THE LETTER. He's a looooooooong ways from being done with them. He will NEVER be done with them--nor, mercifully, the Blood bought saints who've accepted Christ's Blood as their Salvation--as all must do--even Israelies.
IT's just that God has His own timing and route for each individuals and certainly for the Nation of Israel as to how to get there AS A NATION.
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We are secure and currently HAVE eternal life.
***
Verses, taken out of context. Jesus also says to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
You believe you have eternal life. You take your favorite verses and believe that is only what you need for eternal life. Those few verses you expound are not the end all of everything. You must believe it all to have eternal life.
Given God’s affections for HIS BUDDY Abraham, I suspect GOD will STILL consider them Israelites first and foremost.
However, Israelites who’ve finally accepted their true Messiah long promised TO THEM first and foremost.
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