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!ABSURD!
!TO THE MAX!
Putting absurd idiocies in our fingers is FAR from rational and far from the least hint of true dialogue.
SHEESH what terminal obtuseness!
Posted on 11/26/2011 3:33:54 PM PST by Iggles Phan
My problem with the 'Rapture' (pre-millenial; pre-tribulation) teaching is that it forces its adherents to actually REVERSE the Person of Jesus Christ to the Devil.
That's correct.
In the 'Rapture' (or Dispensational) scheme the believer is asked to take the Person of Daniel's 70th Week (Who is Jesus Christ at the Cross) described in Chapter 9, verse 27a:
"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, ..."
... and reverse this 'he' to mean a 'future Antichrist'.
Are you confused?
Is this Jesus Christ or Antichrist?
1. The Historic View.
This view is typified by the 1599 Geneva Bible notes. These are the notes of John Calvin, Miles Coverdale, and John Knox to name a few.
1599 Geneva Bible Notes on Daniel 9:27a:
"By the preaching of the gospel he confirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles. Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection."
It's pretty clear that the Reformers believed that Christ was the Person of Daniel's Great 70th Week.
2. The Modernist View (Dispensational).
In contrast however, compare this historic view to the Dispensational view typified in the Ryrie Study Notes (1978). Look who the modernists assign to this very same Person in Daniel 9:27a:
"The prince of verse 26, the Antichrist previously introduced in 7:8, 24-26, who will make a pact with many (of the Jewish people) at the beginning of the tribulation period. But in the middle of the week (i.e., 3 1/2 years later) Antichrist will break his covenant and desecrate the Temple by demanding worship of himself in it."
The difference couldn't be farther apart.
Historic Christianity says that Jesus fulfilled the 70th week AT THE CROSS, but Rapture Christianity (Dispensationalism) says that the Devil fulfills it in a 're-built' temple.
Therefore, Dispensationalism is no less than a frontal assault on the Cross of Christ. It reverses Jesus Christ to the Devil. It is malicious and a pernicious doctrine.
Remember, this Dispensational view was NEVER known until 1830. That's why it is a Modernist view. It was invented by JN Darby and popularized by CI Scofield, two con-men to Christianity.
In the 20th century, carpetbaggers such as Hal Lindsey, Tim LaHaye, Jack (and Rexella) Van Impe, John Hagee and others have made fame and fortune off of this con game. They have marketed this 'Rapture' theology like a cheap box of laundry detergent on TV and radio, and with videos and books.
My hope and prayer is that the Church starts to wake up out of its slumber and starts challenging its pastors, ministries, and teachers. The Cross of Christ is at stake here!
For the Glory of Christ Jesus. Amen.
There are many very good reasons to support Israel but "because they're God's chosen people" is not one of them. They are not chosen simply because they do not believe. At least that was the words of Christ.
It is besides the point of whether God has plans for Israel or not. God is using Israel simply because it exist. But you could rightfully argue the same about any other country. God uses all nations and all rulers to bring about His glory. It is not because Israel is special any more then America is special.
We should support Israel because it's just; not because we happen to have some wacky idea that God loves them more than anyone else. God shows no partiality.
Truth comes from God’s Word rightly divided.
This junk comes from some dark hole in the pit of hell.
“Post 153 took care of you and your denials and contradictions of Scripture. I notice you have not been able to respond to that post, and I understand.”
Answer:
Ah ... er ... ahem.
Please do yourself a favor here and see 165. It was posted a couple of days ago.
Otherwise you will be noted as a false accuser.
Christian ... What did Jesus say about false accusers?
Sorry, HarelyD but you’re wrong again.
God makes clear in Paul’s writings and elsewhere that the Israelites were blinded RE CHRIST . . . only to have their eyes opened IN GOD’S GOOD TIME BY GOD HIMSELF FOR HIS GOOD PLEASURE AND PURPOSES.
They ARE CHOSEN because of God’s relationship with ABRAHAM AND HIS *EVERLASTING* PROMISES TO ABRAHAM. PERIOD.
All the rest is details.
Who said anything about God LOVING them more than anyone else—though a Biblical case could somewhat be made for that.
That’s NOT the issue.
The issue is that God CHOSE THEM FOR HIMSELF and as a gift to Abraham.
Nobody is saying that God loves Israel any more than anyone else.
They were chosen by God and that did not ever change, and His promises concerning Israel are not dependent on whether they deserve it or not, but based on the unchanging nature of God, that he cannot lie and entered a covenant with Abraham that He cannot and will not break.
They are still the chosen people, even if set aside for the time being.
Living by the law didn’t work in Moses’ time or Abraham’s time as Paul makes clear in his Hebrews discourse on FAITH.
NEVERTHELESS,
It is reasonably clear in Scripture that there will be 144,000 Israelies saved and commissioned as witnesses of their true Messiah—12,000 from each of the 12 tribes. It will be interesting how God does that but GOD WILL DO IT.
And, ELIJAH AND ? *WILL BE* THE TWO WITNESSES of the END TIMES that the whole world will see their bodies lie in Jerusalem’s streets for 3 days at the end of their END TIMES ministry.
AND a remnant will flee and escape the Anti-Christ immediately after the Abomination of Desolation is set up in the THIRD TEMPLE—and be protected—evidently in Petra and possibly otherwise—BY GOD’S FORCES.
That much above is very clear to 100% clear. GOD IS IN CHARGE OF HOW AND WHEN HE BRINGS EACH OF THE ‘DESTINED’ ONES TO FAITH IN CHRIST. HE WILL, HOWEVER, DO IT.
GMTA
“Basically, you’re finished and your thread is a typical Bible-denying fraud that we’ve seen a million times. But don’t worry - salvation will still be available during the seven-year Tribulation. Maybe then your eyes will be opened.”
Answer:
Interesting observation ‘Bible-denying fraud’.
My view is the same view that Jesus, the Apostles, the Early Church, and all of the great Reformers held.
In fact, the article that I posted, quoted the Geneva 1599 Bible notes for this 70th Week Person as Jesus Christ. This was the Bible of the Puritans. It is America’s Bible brought on the Mayflower.
Are you saying that the Puritans and 2,000 years of Christians are also ‘Bible denying fraudsters’?
On the other hand, Dispensationalism was unknown to anyone prior to the 19th century. It was not developed in the church, but rather through social conferences and through the Bank of England funding.
One fact. The Scofield Reference Bible was the very first American book ever printed on the Oxford Press. The Oxford Press is the Bank of England publishing (propaganda) house.
So, dispensationalism did not come from Christianity, rather it came from secular (should I say mercantile?) roots.
Christian ... Which doctrine is really the Bible denying fraud?
The priesthood is NOT after the Levites which came from Abraham. The priesthood is from Melchizedek:
The main trunk is Christ-not Israel. He is the vine. WE are the branches. To be sure we are grafted in but we're grafted to the vine.
What you're really saying is that non-believing Jews like Ahab, Caiaphas, etc, are also graphed in simply because they are Jews.
They were chosen by God for what???? Paul tells us they were chosen by God to carry the Law to man. That in itself is a great priviledge but that is all. It isn't any more different than God having the Virgin Mary carry our Lord Jesus. It is a great honor and the Jews are blessed simply for carrying the Law to man and for the seed of Jesse to come forth from them. But honestly, we make this out to be much more than what it should be. That won't save them and they're just as much under God's curse as any other non-believer.
How many here would agree that they need to come to Christ and become Christians. If they are "chosen" and "blessed" then why bother?
WHAT UNMITIGATED BALDERDASH NONSENSE HORSE FEATHERS!
Incredible.
If there ARE 144,000 Israelites saved, then they will no longer be Jews but Christians.
This was in response to the replier who said that it was ‘impossible’ for God to have Jesus as the first Subject in verse 27a, and antichrist as the subject in verse 27b.
I simply pointed to the previuous vers (26) to show him that God does indeed do that.
Hence, he was proved wrong again.
Is English your first language ?shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiachIt does not appear to be so.
7What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, 8as it is written,
"God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, down to this very day."
9And David says,
"Let their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them; 10let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see, and bend their backs forever."
11So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. 12Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!
13Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry 14in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. 15For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? 16 If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches.
17But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19Then you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." 20That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.
22Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.
25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,
"The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; 27"and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins."
28As regards the gospel, they are enemies of God for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, 31so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. 32For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.
33Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!
34"For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?" 35"Or who has given a gift to him that he might be repaid?"
36For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.
Those who claim the covenant signed with the AntiChrist initiating the sequence of events in the Great Tribulation is instead a covenant being signed with the Messiah are simply setting the stage to promote the AntiChrist as the Messiah.
They will still be Jewish, but believing Jews.
Surely one doesn’t claim Jesus Christ is no longer Jewish?
But Quix, you don’t have the TRUTH. And you make fun of people who don’t agree with you.
I didn’t become Catholic because it was easy, I became Catholic because it is the TRUTH.
Do you really think that what you say is “Christian”?
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