Posted on 11/23/2011 11:11:08 AM PST by marshmallow
A notoriously 'gay-friendly' parish in San Francisco has invited an openly homosexual Episcopalian cleric to lead an Advent Vespers service.
Most Holy Redeemer parish asked Bishop Otis Charles, a retired Episcopalian prelate, to lead the November 30 service. After serving as the Bishop of Utah from 1971 to 1993, he publicly announced that he is homosexual. Divorced from the mother of his 5 children, he solemnized a same-sex union in 2004.
I have a problem with people thinking of the Lord God of All as Buddy Jesus.
John 13: 13 You call me Master and Lord: and you say well; for so I am.
The Greek uses the word kurios, which the Lexicon says means: supreme in authority, i.e. (as noun) controller; by implication, Master (as a respectful title) -- God, Lord, master, Sir.
The King of a kingdom may eat with his subjects, but he is never one of them. That is how the Apostles understood Him. Jesus is always Master or Lord or Rabbi. Even when He was washing their feet, He identifies Himself as the greatest.
Jesus is not first among equals. He is just First.
Thanks so much for these posts. Just, thanks.
You are most welcome. With the Grace of Our Lord Jesus Christ, I stand on the shoulders of the giants of the Faith, and on the continuing efforts of Christians on FR to bring the Gospel to the heretic, the apostate and the pagan. Without Him, I am nothing.
As St. Teresa of Avila addressed Him: “His Majesty”
That’s why every liturgical year we have the Feast of Christ the King.
Jesus made many references to his “Kingdom”
Here are just a few:
Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand
My Kingdom is not of this world
Whoever does not accept the Kingdom of God as a little child shall not enter into it
The Kingdom of heaven is like leaven....
I will give you the keys of the Kingdom...
Unless a man be born again...he cannot enter the Kingdom..
Blessed are the poor of spirit for theirs is the Kingdom...
Blessed are those who suffer persecution....for theirs is the Kingdom...
See? In your own words, you tell us that the Epistles are more important than the Gospel because they follow the Gospels and therefore are better or more important. This is not Christianity, and never has been. That is Paulianity and has been condemned as heresy by a number of different Councils as a part of a number of overall heresies.It's a kind of replacement theology with Paul replacing Christ. Christ's whole ministry, gone.
To me this is just additional evidence that the handful here are far off the mark of both Catholicism and Protestantism, orthodox Christianity as a whole. And, if they add Calvinism to this replacement theology, it's far enough astray to be a different religion. While claiming Christ, they are still as far off, in a different direction, as JW, LDS, Oneness Pentecostals.
I think you just do NOT get it. I said I cannot control what others say on the forum, therefore, I CAN'T be responsible for what is said by "my" side but only myself. Neither can you. And please don't forget that "falsehoods" have been said on ALL sides. Please don't be naive about this. Blaming me for what others have said would be no different than me blaming you for what other Catholics have said right here. I don't think I should have to remind you what has been said. And, one more thing...you WILL get back what you dish out - you DID say that after all. You are right.
Great. Have a nice day.
Here you said, "you can either stop with the falsehoods and correct yourselves, or quit complaining when you get back what is dished out", so by that, it would seem you are admitting that "falsehoods" get "dished" back out whenever you think someone else is stating falsehoods about your faith. That WOULD be some admission, but it already is obvious that is what spurs some of the comments here. Nothing WILL change until we each commit to being respectful even when we disagree. I would welcome that.
But I didn’t invite you to the meeting, did I?
Have a nice day
No one here but you guys ever say anything about Paul replacing Jesus or that Christ's ministry is "gone". You cannot produce even one post from anyone here that comes anywhere close to saying that. Your accusations are groundless and yet you continue to complain that "we" misrepresent the Catholic religion doctrines. It may give you comfort to presume what you believe is superior to anyone else, but I stand with other Christians here and proclaim proudly that Jesus Christ is my Lord, God and Savior and I am saved by the grace of God through faith in Christ apart from any works I do. To teach contrary to that is a false gospel, condemned by God. I pray you see the truth especially during this season of celebrating the birth of our Savior - Immanuel, God with us - Jesus Christ.
You mean that we Christians do. Some of our brethren from afar would be more at home having the Feast of Paul the Emperor. You saw the posts today (and over the last few years). Paul trumps Jesus; the Gospels are only for the Jews, as were the 12. Paul is the only Messiah who matters, etc. etc.
Paul wrote last, so his stuff beats the rest, right? I've got news for you BB. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Jude wrote after Paul was martyred. Therefore I will tell you that by your own words, you MUST not read Paul as the latest revelation. You must read John, because John finished up more than 3 decades after Paul died. First Thessalonians or Galatians were the first books of Paul, so they HAVE to go. Second Peter is usually believed to have been written last, so it is to Peter that we must look. Paul is irrelevant according to your logic, even though you look to him as Messiah.
Now, let us all celebrate the victory of Catholic belief over Protestant silliness, right?
Yup, to them Jesus is just window dressing. The good stuff, consisting of Paul is the core content.
You posted it on an open forum thread, by doing that, you made it a global invite. If you want to "keep it private", then use FreepMail. Other than that, have a nice day, too.
Paul's writings are among the earliest in the NT, so by your logic they don't count. Only the last ones count. Therefore, why don't you jettison everything except John, Jude and Peter, and possibly Matthew and Luke and Mark. Same problem as before: you guys will argue and refuse to back up your positions with any suitable Scripture simply because the Reformation fell for the old Paulian heresies and their children continue it today. Remember Peter's warning against misinterpreting Paul? Alive in tens of thousands of different beliefs, today, and splintering as fast as all get out.
If you want to “keep it private”, then use FreepMail.
Because you said so? Yes, Boss.
Have a nice day.
Are you unaware that the Gospels were placed at the start of the New Testament, not because of when they were written, but because they were chronological? I really wish you would get it out of your head that I in any way say parts of Scripture count more than others or don't count at all. I have never said such and you have no proof that I ever have. And may I remind you, sectarianism and splits did not begin after the Reformation. There have always been disagreements and differences and that is why Scripture MUST be our only infallible authority because it alone came from God. Even the writings of the ECFs do not hold a candle to the infallible truths of Scripture. Man is and will always be fallible and those who hold to man-made doctrines and dogmas cheat themselves as well as their members out of the assurance we have that only Scripture provides.
Those that pervert the truth Peter spoke about when he said about Paul's writings, "speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." Get that, those who are "unlearned", or ignorant, and "unstable" distort not only Paul's but all of Scripture and they do it to their OWN destruction. It's strange that you claim "we" argue and refuse to back up our positions with any suitable Scripture, since we nearly always do include Scripture relevant to the topic. Some even post teachings of your church straight from the Catechism or approved documents yet even then they are denied and danced around. I get it that you have a whole lot riding on the belief that your leaders cannot be wrong about anything, so I understand the aversion to admitting they could be, but it is your own eternal destiny that is riding on it. You owe it to yourself to know not just what you believe but why you believe and if all you got is "because that's what we believe", I feel sorry for you.
You could check with the poster who said his religion started about 63 AD...
Are you unaware that the Gospels were placed at the start of the New Testament, not because of when they were written, but because they were chronological? I really wish you would get it out of your head that I in any way say parts of Scripture count more than others or don't count at all. I have never said such and you have no proof that I ever have.
You told me that Jesus was for the Jews only, as was Peter. It is Paul that is only for the Gentiles. Now you tell me that chronological order matters, not the inspiration of the Holy Spirit at the time that they were written. You told me that Paul had further revelation than the Gospels and therefore that is why we should pay special attention to them over the Gospels.
Interesting. Why bother with the OT, then. If Paul supersedes the Gospels, and the Gospels supersede the OT, then why do you guys so often refer to the OT?
But to come down to the crux of the matter: if later revelation is more important and the order of the books of the NT is important, then admit that Peter, James, Jude and John (both Epistles and the Apocalypse) are more important than Paul. John's Apocalypse was a revelation indeed and revealed in much detail. His epistles are much later and written about much later things than Paul's.
Why not jettison Pauline worship and replace it with equal fervour in the regard of John?
It's strange that you claim "we" argue and refuse to back up our positions with any suitable Scripture, since we nearly always do include Scripture relevant to the topic. Some even post teachings of your church straight from the Catechism or approved documents yet even then they are denied and danced around.
I don't dance. You get it from me straight and you always have.
I get it that you have a whole lot riding on the belief that your leaders cannot be wrong about anything, so I understand the aversion to admitting they could be, but it is your own eternal destiny that is riding on it. You owe it to yourself to know not just what you believe but why you believe and if all you got is "because that's what we believe", I feel sorry for you.
You have just been shown that your logic puts you into an indefensible position and tried to wriggle out of it. I showed you further how your logic in that post puts you into an even more indefensible position. Paul came later than the Gospels, you say, so his revelations are more relevant. However, Peter, Jude, and John were written later than Paul. Why don't you have superior regard for them on that basis?
But wait, you say, the chronological events are really the things that are important. Peter, Jude and John's epistles and Apocalypse occurred chronologically later. Why don't you have superior regard for them on that basis?
But wait, you say, the listing of the books in the Bible are really the most important. Well, Peter, James, Jude and John's epistles and Apocalypse occur later. Why don't you superior regard for them on that basis?
Please answer that, gentle correspondent.
We Christians will refute every one of your posts that we see that says that. Remember when you make claims, not to bear false witness. Unless you guys have personally made the decision that the 10 Commandments, as well as the Commandments of Jesus are suggestions only, as you wind your comfortable way to a personally declared salvation.
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