Gay Episcopal Bishop to Preach at San Francisco Catholic Parish

Catholic Culture ^ | 11/22/11

[marshmallow]

A notoriously 'gay-friendly' parish in San Francisco has invited an openly homosexual Episcopalian cleric to lead an Advent Vespers service.

Most Holy Redeemer parish asked Bishop Otis Charles, a retired Episcopalian prelate, to lead the November 30 service. After serving as the Bishop of Utah from 1971 to 1993, he publicly announced that he is homosexual. Divorced from the mother of his 5 children, he solemnized a same-sex union in 2004.

[Judith Anne]

Okay. I have the text from: http://www.archive.org/stream/thegloriesofmary00liguuoft/thegloriesofmary00liguuoft_djvu.txt
Your quote from page 160 does not appear on page 160.

Your quote from page 80 mixes the section title with the text.

Your quote from pages 82-83 leaves out the most important part: Then she will certainly pray her Son that he may pardon thee

Your quote from page 169 does not appear on page 169. It however in part quotes Justinian but as a statement and not as a question.

Your quote from pages 180-181 does not appear on those pages.

I would suggest that perhaps in the future that you read the actual source material rather than quoting antiCatholic websites without even acknowledging them. The quotes are taken out of context or simply made up.

3,459 posted on Saturday, December 10, 2011 10:11:43 AM by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)

[Elsie]

John 6:28-29 (niv)

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

[Elsie]

A notoriously 'gay-friendly' parish in San Francisco has invited an openly homosexual Episcopalian cleric to lead an Advent Vespers service.

Have we forgotten what this thread is all about????

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Genesis 13:13

Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.

Genesis 18:20-21
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

Genesis 19:4-7
4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.

 

Psalms 12:8      The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

      More?

Isaiah 3:9   The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

2 Peter 2:13b  Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

 

 

Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

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2 Peter 2

 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
 4.  For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,  putting them into gloomy dungeons  to be held for judgment;
 5.  if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
 6.  if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
 7.  and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
 8.  (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
 9.  if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
 10.  This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature  and despise authority.   Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
 11.  yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
 12.  But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
 13.  They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

---

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But there IS hope!!!

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

 9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
     Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

 

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If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape...

[Elsie]

2 Timothy 3

1 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God — 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.

[CynicalBear]

>>Hmmmm, priests are a clearly identifiable group with separate instructions on dealing with accusations against them and therefore, somewhat set apart<<

Oh my dear Rashputin, when will you ever learn to look beyond the deceit of those who think to lord it over you? When will you learn that the CC doesn’t care one wit about your eternal soul? The power they have wrested with deceit and manipulation of God’s word is their only goal. Look at the word they have so proudly and boastfully injected for nefarious purposes. The word they have falsely translated from the Greek is presbyteros (πρεσβύτερος). It does not mean “priest”, it means “elder” as in the elder of two people.

Presbyteros - elder, of age, the elder of two people, advanced in life, an elder, a senior, Forefathers. [http://www.searchgodsword.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=4245]. Here is how all but one version of scripture reads.

1 Timothy 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. 18 For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward. 19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.

That word is used 67 times in the New Testament and not once does it refer to a priest but in all instances refers to someone older. In the KJV it’s used 64 times for elder, 1 time for elder woman, and 1 time for old man.

A priest in the Old Testament was one who offered sacrifice. In the New Testament all believers are called priests because all believers are to be a “living sacrifice to God”. Christ offered once and for all the perfect sacrifice and is the only High Priest over the church.

I Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

An holy priesthood - In the temple at Jerusalem, the priesthood appointed to minister there, and to offer sacrifices, constituted an essential part of the arrangement. It was important, therefore, to show that this was not overlooked in the spiritual temple that God was raising. Accordingly, the apostle says that this is amply provided for, by constituting "the whole body of Christians" to be in fact a priesthood. Everyone is engaged in offering acceptable sacrifice to God. The business is not entrusted to a particular class to be known as priests; there is not a particular portion to whom the name is to be especially given; but every Christian is in fact a priest, and is engaged in offering an acceptable sacrifice to God. See Romans 1:6; "And hath made us: kings and priests unto God." The Great High Priest in this service is the Lord Jesus Christ, (see the Epistle to the Hebrews, passim) but besides him there is no one who sustains this office, except as it is borne by all the Christian members. There are ministers, elders, pastors, evangelists in the church; but there is no one who is a priest, except in the general sense that all are priests - because the great sacrifice has been offered, and there is no expiation now to be made. The name priest, therefore should never be conferred on a minister of the gospel. It is never so given in the New Testament, and there was a reason why it should not be. The proper idea of a priest is one who offers sacrifice; but the ministers of the New Testament have no sacrifices to offer - the one great and perfect oblation for the sins of the world having been made by the Redeemer on the cross. To him, and him alone, under the New Testament dispensation, should the name priest be given, as it is uniformly in the New Testament, except in the general sense in which it is given to all Christians. In the Roman Catholic communion it is consistent to give the name "priest" to a minister of the gospel, but it is wrong to do it. [http://bible.cc/1_peter/2-5.htm]

The same applies to the Hebrews text you used. Once again there is only one version that uses “prelates” in place of “leaders” or “them that rule over you”. The intent again is subtle changes by the CC to subvert authority rather than to rightly hold the “elders” in respect.

Also please don’t bring in that false reference to Jude again. That nonsense has been clearly covered in previous posts and if you keep using the CC version which twists the true meaning of Greek words expect to be corrected by the true word of God.

[rzman21]

Get a life.

[rzman21]

Again, your anti-Catholic bigotry strikes.

[caww]

Is there some reason you yourself cannot address the topic Judith rather than “copy and Paste” another posters post as your own? Where are the authors quotes as you determine he is saying for comparison?

Further, those are not MY quotes, they are the authors quotes ... and your referenced link is not the link source I have given....it is another posters link from whatever source they used.

Again....please post what You have claimed should be the corrected quotes of the authors, and then we can do a comparison and discussion of what we think the author is saying from his link, which was provided several times now for your convienance.

Further from this 'Catholic' website we have yet another quote extolling Mary above Christ

http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/glories4.htm

St. Anselm, to increase our confidence, says this:

“When we pray to the Mother of God we are heard more quickly than when we call directly on the name of Jesus. He further writes....when we have recourse to Jesus, we regard Him at the same time as our Judge, whose business it is to chastise ungrateful souls. Therefore the confidence necessary before we can be heard may fail us....... When we go to Mary, however, she has no other office but to show compassion as Mother of Mercy, and to defend us as our advocate. Hence 'our confidence' is more easily aroused and is often greater than when we go directly to Jesus.

[CynicalBear]

It does certainly follow that using scripture correctly shows anti-Catholicism doesn’t it. Bigotry - stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

I must confess that I am indeed intolerant of the Catholic cult. When scripture clearly teaches that Catholicism is against the real truth of scripture I will proudly stand in defense of scripture. I will steadfastly point to falsehood and error perpetrated by those who repeat Catholic deceit.

[Judith Anne]

Is there some reason you yourself cannot address the topic Judith rather than “copy and Paste” another posters post as your own?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAHAH!!!! It says very clearly that Mark posted it. I referred you to it multiple times but there was no indication that you read it, since you kept asking the same question. Where did I claim it was my own post?

>>>>>>>Where are the authors quotes as you determine he is saying for comparison?

I don’t know...you were the one who had them last.

>>>>Further, those are not MY quotes, they are the authors quotes ...

Two sentences ago, you asked me where the author’s quotes were. Well, here they are. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

and your referenced link is not the link source I have given....it is another posters link from whatever source they used.

Well, your link is unreliable, and doesn’t say what it’s supposed to say. That’s what Mark’s post is about. Did you read it? At least he GIVES a source.

>>>>Again....please post what You have claimed should be the corrected quotes of the authors, and then we can do a comparison and discussion of what we think the author is saying from his link, which was provided several times now for your convienance.

LOL!! Heck no! You aren’t my boss. If it’s that important to you, do it yourself.

All I did was post Matk Bsnr’s post about how yout post was so inaccurate as to be unreliable. Rest of post deleted because I am laughing too hard.

[MarkBsnr]

Anti-Catholicism is the Fundamentalist religion. I can’t help but note their smug arrogance when Catholics quote scripture, claiming we lack the Holy Spirit, and only THEY can understand it.

Correct. It's rather amusing that they claim that the very folks who wrote it and/or chose it are the only ones unable to understand it. That'd be like my wife, who majored in English Literature from Michigan claiming to understand business or engineering management better than I, with an undergrad in chemical engineering and a P.Eng.

Not to knock my wife, of course; I got by far the better deal when I married her. Our children reflect that as well.

My old priest friend said the best thing to do is to avoid engaging in Bible bingo with Protestants because it always becomes an un-Christian game of egotism.

When the Magisterial interpretation of Protestant individuals consist of the digestion of mouldy bread or a piece of cheese (to paraphrase Ebeneezer Scrooge) influencing that interpretation, why then interpretation becomes subjective and not objective. However, we will always point to the Gospels as the pinnacle of God's revelation to man. We do not believe that Jesus Christ is the forerunner of Paul, as do the typical Protestant believers.

[MarkBsnr]

But as Mark Bsnr pointed out, your so-called quotes do not match the original, they match cuts from an anti-Catholic website, which you have not given the web address for, yet.

It would be interesting to find out the truth, wouldn't it?

[MarkBsnr]

Entirely false....Generally most become anti-catholic 'after' they read the scriptures and see the truth recorded in the Bible opposes catholic teachings, rituals and practices.

Let's see. My last boss became antiCatholic when the priest didn't give him the attention he wanted when his little girl was in the hospital for a non life threatening procedure. My brother in law became anti Catholic because he didn't like actually having to get up and attend Mass on Sundays. I have worked with several people who became antiCatholic because they wanted to marry and remarry and remarry and they couldn't get married in the Church until annulment happened. Same with my (originally Methodist) uncle.

I have never known in my personal life somebody who has repudiated Catholicism for the theology. Exactly none. It has always been for a personal reason, usually immediately self serving.

[Jvette]

You realize that the book Ecclesiasticus is an OT book under the Old Covenant. Christ had not paid our sin debt which by the way was only an opening of the gate to heaven which made it possible for us to have eternal life with God.

*****No, the point is that the doctrine was derived from something that was not inspired by God and therefore not to be considered. Using something other than writings that we know were inspired by God are the folly of the CC no matter how long they have done it. Error based on error is no way to build on a “solid Rock” which is Christ.******

Again, you give your own opinion. MY point is that protestants make claims that are simply not true. The doctrine was not made up of whole cloth in the 19th century as they claim. It was believed by the Church for hundreds of years and only declared to be an absolute truth for all to believe after challenges from protestants. These challenges led the people of the Church to ask that it be settled either as doctrine or not.

You say error cannot come from error, but it is only your opinion that Ecclesiasticus is in error. Is Deuteronomy in error because it says an unmarried woman who is not a virgin should be stoned? Or that adulterers should be stoned? Or how about Leviticus which says those who blaspheme should be stoned? The pharisees wanted to stone Jesus because of things He said and did.

Interesting that that verse is the one you chose to say the book has errors.

*****Nothing dishonest was said.*****

The quotes, as presented were indeed dishonest in what was omitted, and done so deliberately to give a certain impression of the passages which was in fact a false one.

*****Contradictions with other portions of scripture.*****

John 8 “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.”

[MarkBsnr]

Those who do not participate in the Eucharist have no life in them. Some of them are seeking Christ and surrender to the Holy Spirit who will guide them to Christ and in increasing numbers, to The One Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church that was founded by Christ Himself and the organization of which was established by the Apostles in keeping with the authority Christ delegated to them. As more of those who were born into the Catholic faith and have fallen away to become Protestant, more and more of those earnestly seeking Christ are realizing that The One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church is the One True Church. As the seed that fell on stone leaves His Church, the new growth of Christian faithful come to His Church. RCIA programs are all much, much, larger now than just a few years ago and they are full of former Fundamentalists, Baptists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, and all to other denominations and non denominations that have gown out of the revolt against His Church. Christ is gathering His Own into His Church and abandoning those without faith, who refuse to take up their cross and follow Him, to fall by the wayside. He is, as the Bible teaches, turning them over to a reprobate mind, to become enamored of the most Protestant and Protestant derived society in history, the society that has adopted the basic idea behind the revolt against Christ, that idea being, "to thine own self be true".

Well spoken. You either follow God or else you follow the god in the mirror.

[Jvette]

It’s a simple question.

If one cannot admit that Jesus loves His mother, I guess it explains how one’s own heart is so hardened against her.

[MarkBsnr]

CAWW did not quote from Liguori in order to "bash" Catholics but to ask a legitimate question about those here who insist the Roman Catholic Church does not condone the worship of Mary

Negative. Caww did not quote Liguori. She quoted an antiCatholic website who claimed to quote Liguori, only with extremely redacted quotes, removing much of the actual content, leaving a very incorrect impression of the content.

For instance, none of the quotes are accurate on the pages claimed. Most of them are actually not there. One is partially there, but in an entirely different context. The most 'damning' quote misses the part in the middle which explains that Mary will pray to Almighty God for us. Not that she is the cause of salvation.

We have our RELIGIOUS duties of obligation to perform at the Stations Of The White Hanky!

The only white hankies I have found are Pentecostal ones.

Care to comment, oh antiCatholic 'believer'?

[Jvette]

More dishonesty.

I commented on it.

[Rashputin]

Didn't read that, didn't need to. Scripture is very clear.

a) God delegated authority over the people to Moses and Core asserted that he didn't have to submit to those Moses placed in authority over the people because Core said all those who came out of Egypt were chosen and equal. God The Father Himself killed Core and his followers.
b) Christ delegated authority over His Church to the Apostles but the self-worshiping crowd insist that they do not need to submit to those the Apostles place in authority over the people in His Church because the self-worshipers claim that everyone who believes in their own personal interpretation of Scripture is equal to those ordained by the Apostles. Christ through the Holy Spirit gave those who follow the heresy of Core over to a reprobate mind leaving them spiritually dead.
c) A clear, exact, comparison, one situation to another, both cases being identical in substance and effect, which is why Jude warned us about Core. The Bible and The One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church are on the side of the Apostles, and the self-worshipers are on the side of Core and heresy. Whether anyone likes it or not and no matter how much anyone tries to deny the very simple sentence, "Obey your prelates and be subject to them". God delegated authority over the people to Moses and Core asserted that he didn't have to submit to those Moses placed in authority over the people because Core insisted there was only "the priesthood of all believers" and all who were chosen were equal. God The Father Himself killed Core and his followers.
d) Christ delegated authority over His Church to the Apostles but the self-worshiping crowd insist that they do not need to submit to those the Apostles place in authority over the people in His Church because the self-worshipers claim that everyone who believes in their own personal interpretation of Scripture is equal to those ordained by the Apostles. Christ through the Holy Spirit gives those who follow Core over to a reprobate mind leaving them spiritually dead.

A clear, exact, comparison, one situation to another, both cases being identical in substance and effect, which is why Jude warned us about Core. The Bible and The One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church are on the side of the Apostles, and the self-worshipers are on the side of the heresy of Core. That's a fact whether anyone likes it or not and no matter how much anyone tries to deny the very simple sentence, "Obey your prelates and be subject to them". Some people read Scripture then reinterpret it to suit their preconceptions and preferences, some people (the type very, very, common among the FR anti-Catholic pack) say, "that's what it says, but that's not what it means". Those of us who believe in Scripture as the Word of God and honestly accept the clear meaning of Scripture take up the burden of not following our own intellect and obey the Scriptures.

Those who cannot accept the clear meaning pretend Scripture is only clear after they apply their own personal interpretation of Scripture, filtering it through their preconceptions and preferences. In spite of the torture and twisting done to the following verse when someone wants to pretend it says, "Scripture Alone", the same people who do that sort of twisting obviously don't accept this verse when they don't want it to apply to a particular portion of Scripture that disagrees with their own personal interpretation of Scripture and their personal preferences.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice:
2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work.

Notice three things in the above Scripture, 1) it's a single sentence, 2) the word 'alone' is not in the sentence, and 3) it does not say that the Book of Jude does not apply to those who do not like the consequences of what is said therein.

Some of us believe Scriptures, others only believe what they can twist Scripture into, The Lego Block Method of Scripture Interpretation"

have a nice day

[Jvette]

****It would be interesting to find out the truth, wouldn’t it?*****

The truth is known.