Gay Episcopal Bishop to Preach at San Francisco Catholic Parish

Catholic Culture ^ | 11/22/11

[marshmallow]

A notoriously 'gay-friendly' parish in San Francisco has invited an openly homosexual Episcopalian cleric to lead an Advent Vespers service.

Most Holy Redeemer parish asked Bishop Otis Charles, a retired Episcopalian prelate, to lead the November 30 service. After serving as the Bishop of Utah from 1971 to 1993, he publicly announced that he is homosexual. Divorced from the mother of his 5 children, he solemnized a same-sex union in 2004.

[Rashputin]

In Jude we are warned about Korah (Core) who started with several true statements, 1) Moses and Aron are no better than any other Jews, and 2) Everyone in Israel was chosen and brought out of Egypt, then pretended those two statements meant that his own personal interpretation of his alternative to what Moses said to do was therefore valid, and rather than obeying Moses, what he considered to be, "priesthood of all believers", was equal to whatever priesthook Moses appointed based on the authority Moses had been delegated by God the Father. That is, Core claimed he and others didn't need to have anyone in authority over them and need not obey those who Moses placed in authority over them when Moses was exercising the authority God delegated to Moses.

Likewise, the "Proddy" folk deny that Christ placed the Apostles in authority over His Church, and deny that they need to accept those who the Apostles placed in authority over His Church when they exercised the authority Christ delegated to the Apostles. The Apostles appointed those who are to oversee the Church yet modern followers of Korah insist that they have no one in authority over them because these modern pretenders to Truth prefer the heresy of, "the priesthood of all believers", to what Scripture clearly teaches.

It's clear, simple, and straight forward, no study of Numbers in any way contradicts the point Jude makes. Jude warns Christians about heresies those who follow Christ should be aware of and avoid, and the only way around the simple facts stated in Scripture is to create some diversionary and dishonest interpretation of the related portion of the Book of Numbers.

You see, everything Protestant and Protestant derived is clearly against Scripture and very fragile. That's why Protestantism didn't just gradually divide into several major schools of thought, but shattered into hundreds of individual false churches and religions during the single year Luther was being well taken care of by the nobility that stood to financially benefit from his heresy. There is no Scriptural basis for "the priesthood of all believers", as it is espoused and acted on by non-Catholic Christians. There are no Christians who are not under the authority of those the Apostles placed in authority over His Church, period. The entire framework of lies built on the falsehood of Korah, is a total fabrication, and a heresy God Almighty Himself punished when Korah first spouted that lie from the Father of Lies in an attempt to usurp the authority God had delegated to Moses.

As I said, go ahead and twist the clear meaning of Jude and Numbers. Anyone who so ignores the clear meaning of this Scripture, though, would be an obvious and deliberate liar when they told other folks they believed in the clear meaning of Scripture. In fact, folks who so ignore and twist Scripture compound one lie with another if they pretend that it's Scripture Alone that dictates what they believe. Jude and the related portion of Numbers is all, clear, Scripture. Nothing needs to be reinterpreted, nothing has complex wording, it's a clear, New Testament, New Covenant, reference to a dangerous heresy that has existed ever since the time of Moses. If anyone wants to deny that, fine, in doing do they they're saying Holy Spirit allowed Jude to be included in the Bible when Jude was in error, and furthermore, they're saying the Holy Spirit could not protect His Word from error. They are, in fact, defaming the Holy Spirit as both inept and incapable. Any weasel worded whine about the Apostles not being in authority over the Church Christ founded are clearly just that, weasel worded whines that boil down to calling the Holy Spirit inept by claiming that the Holy Spirit cannot and did not protect His Word from errors.

If you want to call the Holy Spirit inept and incapable of protecting His Word from error and side with Korah, Go for it. In doing so you'll be sticking with only real belief underlying Protestant and Protestant derived teachings that have all grown out of the revolt against The One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. That single belief that underlies all else is, "to thine own self be true", as humanist and relativist a teaching as has ever existed, and the very same teaching that has spread from the most Protestant population in history to the most Protestant society in history, and guided the entire society and nation to the obvious consequences we live with today. "To thine own self be true" is the singular thing that all the non-Catholic churches have in common because it is the single reason for the revolt against those Christ had delegated His authority to and placed over us in His Church, The One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church founded by Christ Himself.

I feel sure anyone who actually cares can find both Jude and ths associated portions of Numbers, and I also feel sure those who pretend to base their faith on Scripture while in reality rewriting Scripture to suit thier own personal interpretation of Scripture will not do so. They may go through the motions of quoting Scripotue, but people who claim blood is not book, flesh is not flesh, and rock is not rock, will not read what is there. Instead, they will almost automatically rather spin themself a web of diversion, reinterpretation, and redefinition, so they can continue to enjoy worshiping their own carnal mind. Have a nice day

[Rashputin]

"Don’t try to promote that nonsense to me again."

It's all pearls before swine to those who cannot read and understand Scripture because they refuse to obey the Scriptures, and therefore according to Scripture have no life in them. If the shoe fits, wear it.

have a nice day

[CynicalBear]

See post 3403.

[caww]

Here....Miss Judith...you might find what your looking for here and the links provided.

http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/mary-index.htm

[caww]

Mark...that is not the source of where I got the information. Though I’m sure other sites have used the compilation as well.

But again....read the book...it’s avaiable on line so that you can read in full context which was your question to begin with.

[Rashputin]

Why on earth would I bother with posts from those who do not partake of the flesh and blood of Christ in the Eucharist? The Bible says they have no life in them, they are spiritually dead. It's a fact I can attest to, something you do not know until you surrender, accept Christ, take up your cross, and follow Christ rather than relying on your own understanding. Some people cannot bear the weight of listening to anyone else enough to understand and learn, so for them the cross is far to heavy and they never bother with any of it. They may claim to believe in Christ, but they haven't surrendered, and they have refused the cross they must bear.

Even when I point such folks to simple, clear, Scripture, they just start spouting more fabrications, misinterpretations, and diversions, that please their own carnal mind, and in doing so dig themselves even deeper into heresy and effrontery to God.

When that sort of folks post a lie, fabrication, misrepresentation, and all the other sort of game playing, self-gratifying, garbage they revel in, I may or may not post a direct statement pointing out for others that the noise such a person posted is just that. Noise generated by one persons carnal, self-centered mind, not Christianity or even a poor imitation of Christianity. Posting Scripture to those who have no life in them and don't want the spirit to guide them is useless.

Reading their fabrications and their reinterpretations of what has been well understood and clear to everyone for nearly two thousand years is just as useless. That's exactly why the Scripture tells us about not throwing pearls before swine, it irritates the pig and wastes our time. It also hardens the heart of the pig each time that pig wallows in the mud it loves rather than listening and trying to understand.

have a nice day

[caww]

Anyone looking can read his book...and additionally use the following resources....the fact of the matter of Mary is.... Your Bishop worshipped her,... elevated her above Christ,.. and encouraged others to do likewise...now prove differently.

I have given the book..page and such and STILL you and others do not respond to defend the position of your churches worship of Mary. Until you do it’s apparently clear you have no defense.

And if you’re going to investigate why not use your own churches sites as follows...and for your convienance I have provided a portions of information that you may defend your position.

THE CHARITY OF MARY IN TWO PARTS St. Alphonsus Liguori
THE CHASTITY OF MARY St. Alphonsus Liguori
MARY, OUR LIFE, OBTAINS FOR US PERSEVERANCE St. Alphonsus Liguori
MARY, OUR LIFE AND OUR SWEETNESS PART 1 St. Alphonsus Liguori
MARY, OUR LIFE AND OUR SWEETNESS PART 2 St. Alphonsus Liguori
MARY, OUR LIFE AND OUR SWEETNESS PART 3 St. Alphonsus Liguori

http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/mary-index.htm

[caww]

Amazingly you yourself have not provided even a “snippet “ of the quotes used in order to defend what you’re saying...and yet your require from others the entire context....so post the ones you are referencing Mark and we can go from there.

[Jvette]

Wouldn’t be engaging in a bit of back biting here would you?

I repeat, I googled those quotes in a sincere attempt to find them in order to read the ENTIRE work of the author and what came up was these exact quotes, redacted in the same exact manner in almost the same exact list on several anti Catholic websites.

I did not go looking to see where you got them, but I certainly found out.

If after doing so, I thought for one minute you would receive an honest assessment of what St. Ligouri wrote and actually wanted a discussion about the theology behind it, I would gladly do so.

I would also gladly do so, if I thought for one minute that you could ever grasp any of St. Ligouri’s work.

I would also gladly do so, if I thought for one minute that you had any understanding of the Catholic Church and the Catholic hierarchy and the way it is guided by the Holy Spirit.

I find it highly amusing that one would be so “offended” by the private revelations written of by St. Ligouri. I thought private revelation for interpretation of Scripture is what protestantism is all about.

It might interest others here to know that the book you referenced, is not one that the average Catholic will ever even hear about much less read. But, that doesn’t fit the agenda does it?

It might interest others here to know that the Church does not “teach” St. Ligouri. His works regarding Mary are his own and as long as he did not overstep the bounds of orthodoxy, he was free to expound on Mary.

What others won’t be told here is that throughout the book, St. Ligouri gives the glory for the created Mary to God and credits everything he writes about Mary to the merits and grace of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. He makes clear that Mary is NOT DIVINE and that all she is comes to her because of HER SON< JESUS CHRIST!

It might interest others here to know that there is a difference between the official teachings of the Catholic Church which are binding on her members and the private opinions and revelations of individuals, which believers are free to accept or reject, as long as such writings and opinions contain no heresy.

No Scripture, CB? The book mentioned is filled with it, both from the OT and the NT. If one has actually read it one would know that and though one may disagree with the extreme devotion to Mary by St. Ligouri, the theology behind it is sound and grounded in Scripture and upon Jesus, God and Man.

But none of this fits the agenda does it? Not when there are seemingly blasphemous soundbites cobbled together to blast in a drive by posting.

[caww]

“How to Enthrone Mary Immaculate Queen in Your Home
and Consecrate Your Family to Her”...was on a site visited recently....complete with setting up an alter and consecrating themsleves to her.....and yet they continue to say this is not idolatry....which it calls for positioning of an idol of Mary and the whole getup surrounding their own personal alter to her..... Such blindness defies imagination.

[caww]

Once again you and others fail greatly in not addressing what quotes were presented...let alone re-post them and comment accordingly....you have failed to defend your church. Further you are mistaken to say the catholic church doesn’t “officially “ worship Mary. Check the Vatican site and you will see otherwise.

[Judith Anne]

That is so false as to be offensive. Devotion is not worship. None of your false statements make it so. I find it interesting that at the time of the year when Mary should be most honored, the most false statements are made about Catholic teachings.

Statues of Mary are not idols of Mary. Catholics do not worhip “statues” of any kind, not even those of Christ. Christ Himself in the Eucharist, Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity, is Who we worship.

Your false statements show you for rhe anti-Catholic bigot you claim not to be. Why not just admit it, honestly?

[Jvette]

*****Prove the author is lying...after all he’s one of yours Judith....book, pages, author have been given..go at it!*****

Which author? The author of the website from whence you gleaned these quotes?

Or the author of the book?

St. Ligouri did not lie. He wrote a treatise on Mary in which he references Scripture, the private revelations of others, words of other saints and theologians and his own opinions and beliefs.

What is dishonest is posting snippets, rending one’s garments and crying blasphemy, without posting the entire passages and then pretending that what is contained is official Church teachings.

[Jvette]

Sorry, CB, forgot to ping you on previous post.

[Judith Anne]

What is your obsession with 300 year old pious Catholics who revere Mary? Why do you and other protestants persist in looking up antique texts from another era to ridicule?

Are you trying to force Catholics to admit they worship Mary, when we don’t? Are you calling us liars?

How many times do we have to say it? We do not worship Mary. We don’t. She is a model for all Christians. Falsehood cannot change our beliefs.

[Judith Anne]

I note that the pejorative website has yet to be given. Probably ashamed of it.

[caww]

I googled those quotes in a sincere attempt to find them in order to read the ENTIRE work of the author

Why not just go to the authors pages as given then the round about way your are going and continue to go....at least comment on the quotes given and we can debate if or not the author means what he is saying.

Now that you've gone full circle on determining your issue of source and where it "didn't come from" from my post......we find you now attack fellow catholics as not being familiar with this well known and "sainted" author who is highly regarded among the church leadership as well as within the history of the church. Anything and everything but quoting the quotes and discussion of them.

BTW The compilation I used I did not get from any of the sites you might have found them.

For everyone interested:

"ONLINE LIGUORI'S BOOK PAGE BY PAGE"

http://www.onread.com/fbreader/388152

Now you have the book at your fingertips Jvette...so you can list the quotes exactly as you think they are written and we can then go from here and debate his quotes.

[Judith Anne]

I note that the pejorative website has yet to be given. Probably ashamed of it.

[Judith Anne]

I note that the pejorative website has yet to be given. Probably ashamed of it.

[caww]

...I have now given the site of the author's book...online..and linked...so you and others have the authors' quotes exactly as written or how you might think they are.

So post them and let's debate what he's saying or not.

Just in case it passed you by Judith...here is the online book you may reference.

http://www.onread.com/fbreader/388152