Gay Episcopal Bishop to Preach at San Francisco Catholic Parish

Catholic Culture ^ | 11/22/11

[marshmallow]

A notoriously 'gay-friendly' parish in San Francisco has invited an openly homosexual Episcopalian cleric to lead an Advent Vespers service.

Most Holy Redeemer parish asked Bishop Otis Charles, a retired Episcopalian prelate, to lead the November 30 service. After serving as the Bishop of Utah from 1971 to 1993, he publicly announced that he is homosexual. Divorced from the mother of his 5 children, he solemnized a same-sex union in 2004.

[rzman21]

hat kind of error is to be expected from a catholic, since they allow a Nicolaitan to ‘interpret’ the scriptures, but really the scriptures are designed to self-interpret, for those that allow them to do so.

>>That’s why you have 10s of thousands of different Protestant interpretations of the scriptures.

Protestants have more in common with the Nicolaitans, considering their antinomianism and their rebellion against the Catholic Church.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaism

[D-fendr]

Without a hierarchy and authority, as we see in the Council of Jerusalem, you have anarchy and heterodoxy.

It’s just not workable, that’s why Paul didn’t tell the Corinthians to vote on it. The Church of Christ’s and His Apostles’ teaching would have disappeared long ago into a morass of multiple religions - if Jesus had established a pure democracy instead.

It just fails as a means to keep and transmit One Faith over centuries and millenia.

[metmom]

If Protestantism is an orchestra, it’s one without a bandleader.

For CHRISTIANS, not necessarily equating to Protestantism, the "bandleader" is the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12 1Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2You know that when you were pagans you were led astray to mute idols, however you were led. 3Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus is accursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except in the Holy Spirit.

4Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. 7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.

12For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body— Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

14For the body does not consist of one member but of many. 15If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," that would not make it any less a part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," that would not make it any less a part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? 18But as it is, God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose. 19If all were a single member, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, yet one body.

21The eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you," nor again the head to the feet, "I have no need of you." 22On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23and on those parts of the body that we think less honorable we bestow the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty, 24which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving greater honor to the part that lacked it, 25that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.

27Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. 28And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31But earnestly desire the higher gifts.

[D-fendr]

Without a bandleader, playing different songs all at the same time.

Not feasible.

[rzman21]

I’d suggest you read up on the Nicolaitans before hurling barbs around considering like yourself, they rebelled against the Catholic Church.

St. Irenaeus of Lyons writes about their errors in his Against the Heresies.
Chapter 24. The Melchisedecians; The Nicolaitans.

While, however, different questions have arisen among them, a certain (heretic), who himself also was styled Theodotus, and who was by trade a banker, attempted to establish (the doctrine), that a certain Melchisedec constitutes the greatest power, and that this one is greater than Christ. And they allege that Christ happens to be according to the likeness (of this Melchisedec). And they themselves, similarly with those who have been previously spoken of as adherents of Theodotus, assert that Jesus is a (mere) man, and that, in conformity with the same account (already given), Christ descended upon him.

There are, however, among the Gnostics diversities of opinion; but we have decided that it would not be worth while to enumerate the silly doctrines of these (heretics), inasmuch as they are (too) numerous and devoid of reason, and full of blasphemy. Now, even those (of the heretics) who are of a more serious turn in regard of the Divinity, and have derived their systems of speculation from the Greeks, must stand convicted (of these charges). But Nicolaus has been a cause of the wide-spread combination of these wicked men. He, as one of the seven (that were chosen) for the diaconate, was appointed by the Apostles. (But Nicolaus) departed from correct doctrine, and was in the habit of inculcating indifferency of both life and food. And when the disciples (of Nicolaus) continued to offer insult to the Holy Spirit, John reproved them in the Apocalypse as fornicators and eaters of things offered unto idols.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/050107.htm

[D-fendr]

the "bandleader" is the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit according to each individual's own lights.

Without any hierarchy or authority, each can claim, with equal authority, that the Holy Spirit is calling a different tune.

[rzman21]

St. Paul is writing about the Catholic Church, not individuals who take it upon themselves to be their own magisterium.

[HossB86]

You aren’t in holy orders.

And thank goodness for that.

And besides you are both heterodox and schismatic.

Neener neener neener -- and you've got a pancake on your head so there.

Give me a break. Nothing better than that?

Why not try reading a commentary on Romans? Skeered?

Hoss

[rzman21]

I’ve read and re-read Romans countless times. The patristic commentaries on Romans don’t agree with Protestant conclusions.

Read 2 Peter 3:15-16.

[metmom]

St. Paul is writing about the Catholic Church,

FOTFLOL!!!

Oh he is not!!!

He's talking to the true church, the body of believers who is baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit through faith in Christ.

They were not followers of Peter. That was laid to rest in the first chapter of the book.

[D-fendr]

St. John Chrysostom's Homilies on the Epistle to the Romans

[caww]

You theorize that the Apostles made a habit of writing down everything that happened of spiritual significance?

Well yea...that's a no brain-er...sure they did for everything that God wants us to know. Unfortunately some spend so much time trying to determine what they think the Holy Spirit 'left out' , and basing their faith on 'what isn't written', that they lose sight of the truth that IS written, and thus they miss the mark of the high calling which is in Christ Jesus.

Most who do this cannot discern it is just another tactic to keep believers and unbelievers away from what Christ wants them to know...get them tangled up in a ball of thread for years...then they miss the mark entirely and to their own loss.

[metmom]

Unfortunately some spend so much time trying to determine what they think the Holy Spirit 'left out' , and basing their faith on 'what isn't written', that they lose sight of the truth that IS written, and thus they miss the mark of the high calling which is in Christ Jesus.

You nailed it there.

[GiovannaNicoletta]

Darnnit CynicalBear!!! We won’t be here to be part of the one-world religion!!

[rzman21]

He’s talking to the true church, the body of believers who is baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit through faith in Christ.

>>Nice 16th century deconstruction of St. Paul. The only people in the first century who were baptized into faith in Jesus Christ were Catholics as St. Ignatius of Antioch attests.

What does St. Peter have to do with your argument?

[Elsie]

I thought this thread wuz about FAGS!!

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Genesis 13:13

Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.

Genesis 18:20-21
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

Genesis 19:4-7
4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.

 

Psalms 12:8      The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

      More?

Isaiah 3:9   The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

2 Peter 2:13b  Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

 

 

Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

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2 Peter 2

 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
 4.  For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,  putting them into gloomy dungeons  to be held for judgment;
 5.  if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
 6.  if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
 7.  and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
 8.  (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
 9.  if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
 10.  This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature  and despise authority.   Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
 11.  yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
 12.  But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
 13.  They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

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But there IS hope!!!

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

 9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
     Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

 

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If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape...

[smvoice]

You're serious, aren't you?

Those who disagree with what GOD says you need to be saved cannot be saved. That answers the 11 questions you asked.

[caww]

You nailed it there.

Always fun having a Luther moment..LOL.

[rzman21]

I’ve read it countless times. After all St. John Chrysostom was the editor of my Divine Liturgy, which bears his name.

[CynicalBear]

>> We must turn to tradition, for everything cannot be received from the divine Scriptures.<<

I can’t believe that people fall for that claptrap cultist drivel. It’s the same thing with the Mormon, Muslims, and every other cult who proposes to know more than the Holy Word of God.