Occult, occultist, occultism. Meanings ... why some churches consider occultism as something ZOT

[Love Wisdom Truth]

Occult, occultist, occultism.

Occult meaning:
1. Of, relating to, or dealing with supernatural influences, agencies, or phenomena.
2. Beyond the realm of human comprehension; inscrutable.
3. Available only to the initiate; secret: occult lore. mysterious.
4. Hidden from view; concealed.

Why some churches consider occultism as something wrong/bad?

If there is something bad in occultism please show some evidence it is. Man made theories or hypothesis don't mean anything to me. As it is said “the tree is known by its fruits” so I would like to check the fruits, not someones theories or hypothesis that occultism is bad.

(I believe there are angels, and that there are supernatural powers, plus many other secrets in mother Nature to which access is not given just to anyone, but only to highly developed souls. Why? Because if access is given to us - the ordinary people to all those powers, we may use them to kill each other. If believing in all that makes one occultist, than I am an occultist. Jesus for example made out of 5 loafs of bread way much more to feed 5,000 people, He turned water into wine and etc..... IMO, He is one of the best occultists ever. Why, He didn't share that knowledge with everyone else??? There are some serious reasons for that, and the answer is: - We are not ready.)

Why occultism is bad for some (or most) churches? Thank you.

[brent13a]

I'm sure it can be hard for someone to try to make heads or tails of a lot of things when it comes to western society and religion. Especially when all versions of christianity so 'coincidentally' have many aspects of paganism and occultism peppered throughout it.
A good place to start to understand is that the theology that the man Jesus and his crew of 12 attempted to teach and spread was not christianity, and in fact it was not even remotely christianity.
Neither Jesus nor his 12 disciples, nor their original followers quit being Jews. When Jesus was born it didn't usher in a whole new religion (Paul and the Greeks did that).
What Jesus professed is completely different from what Paul and the Greeks taught.
The man-altered scriptural translations and interpolations and politics of 2000 years have made christianity something that Jesus nor his 12 disciples would recognize or claim.
The original Jesist Movement of Jerusalem were nothing more than Nationalist, Back-to-the-roots Jews who believed the Messiah had come and they spent the rest of their lives waiting for his return…..as Nationalist, Back-to-the-roots jews who had forsaken man-made traditions.
Long story short, here is why I don't accept "occultism" or accept the 'coincidental' paganism within christianity:
Because YWHW tells me not too (the same guy that Jesus used to reference and whom Paul never does without radically altering what He has said):

When you come to the land that YHWH your Elohim is giving you, do not learn to do the revolting practices of those nations. Among you, there shall not be found anyone who passes his son or daughter through fire, who practices stick divination, who divines auspicious times, who divines by omens, who practices witchcraft, who uses incantations, who consults mediums and oracles, or who attempts to communicate with the dead. Anyone involved in these practices is repulsive to YHWH, and it was because of repulsive practices such as these that YHWH your Elohim is driving out these nations before you. You must therefore remain totally faithful to YHWH your Elohim. The nations that you are driving out listen to astrologers and stick diviners, but what YHWH has given you is totally different. In your midst, YHWH will set up for you a prophet like me from among your brethren, and it is to him that you must listen.
Deuteronomy 18:9-15

[NavyCanDo]

So believing in Angels makes you an occultist? I don’t care what watered down definition your favorite web-dictionary gives you, blending faith based Judaic-
Christianity with a word associated by any common man with Evil, is in itself ignorant at best, heresy at worse.

Believing in the things of God that are unseen, I will continue to use the word, “Faith” not occult.

[Tennessee Nana]

If there is something bad in occultism please show some evidence it is.
___________________________________

Are you Mormon ???

Is that why you seem think the occult is OK ????

[time4good]

Others have made good Biblical points, I’ll add one more.

Satan appealing to human pride (same thing that threw him out of Heaven faster than lightning,) to make them think they are ‘special’ and elite and separate with unique knowledge is the oldest trick in The Book:

Genesis 3

1Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

[johngrace]

"Jesus for example made out of 5 loafs of bread way much more to feed 5,000 people, He turned water into wine and etc..... IMO, He is one of the best occultists ever. Why, He didn't share that knowledge with everyone else??? There are some serious reasons for that, and the answer is: - We are not ready.)"

"Why, He didn't share that knowledge with everyone else??? There are some serious reasons for that, and the answer is: - We are not ready.)

Share the knowledge?

You mean so you can become your own "wonder worker" and "wizard". Like without Christ? The question shows your whole approach is all wrong.

. Perhaps this will help.

" 8:9 There was therefore great joy in that city. Now there was a certain man named Simon who before had been a magician in that city, seducing the people of Samaria, giving out that he was some great one:

8:10 To whom they all gave ear, from the least to the greatest, saying: This man is the power of God, which is called great.

8:11 And they were attentive to him, because, for a long time, he had bewitched them with his magical practices.

8:12 But when they had believed Philip preaching of the kingdom of God, in the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

8:13 Then Simon himself believed also and, being baptized, he adhered to Philip. And being astonished, wondered to see the signs and exceeding great miracles which were done.

8:14 Now, when the apostles, who were in Jerusalem, had heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John.

8:15 Who, when they were come, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Ghost.

8:16 For he was not as yet come upon any of them: but they were only baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

8:17 Then they laid their hands upon them: and they received the Holy Ghost.

8:18 And when Simon saw that, by the imposition of the hands of the apostles, the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

8:19 Saying: Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I shall lay my hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. But Peter said to him:

8:20 Keep thy money to thyself, to perish with thee: because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

8:21 Thou hast no part nor lot in this matter. For thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

8:22 Do penance therefore for this thy wickedness: and pray to God, that perhaps this thought of thy heart may be forgiven thee

8:23 For I see thou art in the gall of bitterness and in the bonds of iniquity.

8:24 Then Simon answering, said: Pray you for me to the Lord that none of these things which you have spoken may come upon me."

Now! What is the problem here in these passages and your question.

You want power not God. Your whole motivation is like having a hooker for the power of sex without true love.

It is about knowing the living God. Not about "power".

3:16 For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son: that whosoever believeth in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting.

3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world: but that the world may be saved by him.

3:18 He that believeth in him is not judged. But he that doth not believe is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

3:19 And this is the judgment: Because the light is come into the world and men loved darkness rather than the light: for their works were evil.

3:20 For every one that doth evil hateth the light and cometh not to the light, that his works may not be reproved.

3:21 But he that doth truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest: because they are done in God.

[johngrace]

That is Acts 8 in your New Testament bible.

[johngrace]

John 3-16 was second passage.

[Boogieman]

“If there is something bad in occultism please show some evidence it is. Man made theories or hypothesis don’t mean anything to me.”

This statement alone shows that you have very little grasp of logic or critical thinking. If you won’t accept “man made theories or hypothesis” (sic), then what do you expect us men to offer up as arguments? Are you expecting a fairy or angel to appear and tell you that occultism is bad?

[time4good]

I was just going to post something with same point - not even glorying in power truly given from God:
After Jesus sent out his disciples with Godly authority to perform miracles and drive out demons, heal - Jesus admonishes them to know the Source of their ability (not even their ability - they were just willing instruments) and mainly to only glory in their salvation:

Luke 9:17-20
17And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.

18And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

19Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

20Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

[BereanBrain]

Occult knowledge is knowledge that CANNOT stand up to the light of the truth.

That is why it is “hidden” knowledge.

This helps the purveyors of lies get their product taken more seriously.

Consider:

I walk up to you and say “The stock of Company XYZ is going to go up 50% tomorrow” and walk off. You will put very little stock in this information.

However, if you overhear a conversation not intended for you (i.e. you are eavesdropping) and hear a person state “The stock of Company XYZ is going to go up 50% tomorrow”, you take it VERY seriously.

Occult info is always info you “should not have”, like the above. The Gnostics were the first Christians how got taken hook,line and sinker by such an easy deception. They lusted after Occult knowledge. It lead them to all debauchery.

Today we have the same sort of “secret” societies. Freemasonry is one build on “occult” BS.

[ApplegateRanch]

The zot is definitely coming. The newbie has been here a very short time.

Second tell-tale sign: posted and ran, never answering any of the replies.

[SirLurkedalot]

Ozone.

[guitarplayer1953]

Jesus operated out of the third heaven presence of God all other information is from the 2nd heaven which is the domain of satan.

[ModelBreaker]

“Neither Jesus nor his 12 disciples, nor their original followers quit being Jews. When Jesus was born it didn’t usher in a whole new religion (Paul and the Greeks did that). What Jesus professed is completely different from what Paul and the Greeks taught.”

Paul was Jewish thru and thru. The charge that he introduced Hellenism into Christianity was in vogue for some time. But more recent scholarship has put rubbish to that. See e.g. N.T. Wright, “What Paul Really Said.”

I agree that Greek notions did weasel their way into Church doctrines later. But not from Paul. Paul was a very well educated second temple Jewish Pharisee thoroughly acquainted with the scriptures. Most of his work was spent working through the implications of the Resurrection in light of the Jewish scriptures (as I’m sure you know, second temple Jews—excluding the Saducees—interpreted the scriptures as saying the Messiah and the resurrection of everyone would happen all at once. As Paul noted, only Jesus got resurrected. So the existing interpretation of scripture was clearly wrong and Paul worked thru the new interpretation to accomodate the fact of the Resurrection.)

“The man-altered scriptural translations and interpolations and politics of 2000 years have made christianity something that Jesus nor his 12 disciples would recognize or claim.”

The case that our current Bible is the result of alterations, interpolations, and bad translations of the new testament is really a bad case. Few serious new testament scholars will make it with a straight face (whether Christian or non-Christian scholars). The “Catholics altered the bible” argument is really nothing more than a pop-culture meme at this point. Here is why:

1. We have more than 26,000 existing copies of the new testament in at least ten different languages that survive from the ancient world. The various copies can each be traced to a chain of copies made from the originals. There are many chains with many branches. Mistakes or alterations in one chain are not made in other chains. So we can assemble the original words in the new testament with very high accuracy— greater than 99.9%. The 0.01% of the words that are not clear make no difference in doctrine.

2. In fact, the Bodmer and Beatty Papyri both date to before 200 A.D. and the vast bulk of the new testament is in them and accurately reproduced in today’s Bible. So all the sneaky alterations would have had to have been made by no more than 163 years after the Resurrection—not the imagined 2000 year conspiracy.

3. Finally, the early church fathers quoted from what is now the new testament extensively in their writings (much of which survives). Those were written from 90 A.D. to 200 A.D. We could reconstruct almost the entire new testament from just the writings of the early church fathers even if all the ancient copies were lost.

4. These are all documents that are reliably dated to pre-200 A.D. Thus, we know that the words in today’s Bible are the same words written by the original authors. So even if the Catholic Church had wanted to change things around, it couldn’t have because all those tens of thousands of copies were already out there.

If you are interested in learning about this, I would be happy to provide more references.

[johngrace]

Good Point! Amen!

[dragonblustar]

IBTZ

[dragonblustar]

To: Love Wisdom Truth

If there is something bad in occultism please show some evidence it is.

___________________________________

Are you Mormon ???

Is that why you seem think the occult is OK ????

That's what I was thinking.

[Tennessee Nana]

Dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb

:)

[America always]

How predictable and typically ignorant.

[boatbums]

nutty as squirrel poop

LOLOL! I'll have to remember that one.