Pope urges churches to learn from evangelicals

Monsters and Critics ^ | Sept 23, 2011

[Alex Murphy]

Erfurt, Germany - Pope Benedict XVI urged mainstream Christian denominations Friday to learn from hard-working evangelical churches which are more successful in their missionary work.

'Faced with a new form of Christianity, which is spreading with overpowering missionary dynamism, sometimes in frightening ways, the mainstream Christian denominations often seem at a loss,' Benedict said during a meeting in Erfurt, Germany with Lutheran leaders.

'This is a form of Christianity with little institutional depth, little rationality and even less dogmatic content, and with little stability,' he said according to speech notes distributed by the Vatican. The meeting was held behind closed doors.

'This worldwide phenomenon poses a question to us all: what is this new form of Christianity saying to us, for better and for worse?'

The pope was referring to fundamentalist Protestant and pentecostalist groups which not only proselytize in non-Christian regions of the world, but have also converted hundreds of thousands of former Catholics in Asia and Africa.

[Alex Murphy]

Pope Benedict XVI urged mainstream Christian denominations Friday to learn from hard-working evangelical churches which are more successful in their missionary work....The pope was referring to fundamentalist Protestant and pentecostalist groups which not only proselytize in non-Christian regions of the world, but have also converted hundreds of thousands of former Catholics in Asia and Africa.

See comments by the Pope on the related thread Converts vs. 'Cradle Catholics', wherein he compares Catholic and (former) Evangelical efforts:

Do converts to the faith make better evangelists than "cradle Catholics"? Pope Benedict XVI seems to think so. Christians since childhood should "ask forgiveness," the pope told a group of his former theological students recently, "because we bring so little of the light of [Christ's] face to others, and emanate so feebly the certainty that he is, he is present and he is the great and complete reality that we are all awaiting."

[fishtank]

This is a nice response to the “swimming the Tiber” posts we often see.

[demshateGod]

Probably not a good idea to mimic evangelicals at this point. They’re quickly degenerating into either a social gospel, Rick Warren, or prosperity gospel, Joel Osteen. All apostasy. If you want some mentors, look to the house churches in China, IMHO.

[Thane_Banquo]

Maybe it's because Evangelicals teach the Biblical evangelion, that dikaiōsis is a forensic word.

[chesley]

Well, I’m not Pentecostal, and I’m not fundamentalist, but I am evangelical. The Pope can keep his snide comments to himself.

[TheThirdRuffian]

Personally, I urge Roman Catholics and Protestants of any kind to not worry about each other.

The theological differences are slight and largely stylistic in the scale of things.

Focus on muslims and non-Christians.

[Dutchboy88]

"'This is a form of Christianity with little institutional depth, little rationality and even less dogmatic content, and with little stability,' he said according to speech notes distributed by the Vatican."

Read that, "few institutional chains, much concern about truth and even more about reasonable interpretive techniques, with reliance upon God's Spirit rather than our man-centered superstitious cult." No wonder the Vatican is distributing notes...to double as tissues.

[Steelfish]

I don’t think the Pope was talking about mimicking them. He was referring to their “fervor” and “zeal” while at the same time asking how such a hollow and false form of Christianity spreads just like Mormonism before the advent of the Haggards, Schullers, Tammy Bakers; Osteens, and Grahams,

[PetroniusMaximus]

“This is a form of Christianity with little institutional depth, little rationality and even less dogmatic content, and with little stability”

Kind of sounds like the first century church.

[smvoice]

Looks like those Vati-CAN'T t-shirts are getting to the pope. I would imagine we will soon hear of the newly released "Chant Your Way to Prosperity" Vatican cd.

[nathanbedford]

'This is a form of Christianity with little institutional depth, little rationality and even less dogmatic content, and with little stability,' he said according to speech notes distributed by the Vatican. The meeting was held behind closed doors.

As the product of a fundamentalist Protestant and an Irish Catholic marriage, I am at a loss to know how to respond to this.

Evidently his Holiness was referring to those Protestant sects which both proselytize intensively in the Third World and are either fundamentalist or Pentecostal:

The pope was referring to fundamentalist Protestant and pentecostalist groups which not only proselytize in non-Christian regions of the world, but have also converted hundreds of thousands of former Catholics in Asia and Africa.

I think that most Protestants recognize a distinction between fundamentalist and Pentecostal and I assume that the Vatican does as well. But these descriptive terms embraced a multitude of sects some of which might fit the description in part or in whole but many, perhaps most, do not.

I am at a loss because the very idea of most Protestants sects is not to build "institutional depth" but, quite the contrary, to break through the institutional barriers between man and God. To the degree that every man is a priest, I suppose one at the peak of the Roman Catholic. would regard the collective faithful of a Protestant faith to be of "little stability." The Protestants might rejoin that is not stability but solvation which they seek and one of the reasons they "protest" against the Catholic Church is because in their eyes its very stability poses a barrier to that goal.

The rationality and "dogmatic" content (I assume this is some sort of problem in translation) of Protestant faith is an observation wide of the mark if one is mindful of Martin Luther's injunction: "Sola Scriptura."

It is not my purpose here to refight the thirty years war, God knows that was a terrible experience for Western civilization and lead to a kind of modus vivendi in which Lutheranism and Catholicism could co-exist. It was one of the most brutal, bloody, and prolonged wars in our history. It was only through exhaustion that an accommodation could be reached. I hope that does not presage our experience with radical Islam.

But it should tell us why the American Bill of Rights starts off with the First Amendment which is a direct product of that European experience.

His Holiness is quite right to defend his faith. I share much of his concerns even though I have chosen the Protestant path. However, his words are impolitic and he should measure them more carefully in the future.

[count-your-change]

How many have been driven away the Catholic church by the ongoing sex abuse scandal? And the the repeated attempts to cover it up?

Let the Pope remove his millstone and he’ll be better able to speak.

[vladimir998]

‘This is a form of Christianity with little institutional depth, little rationality and even less dogmatic content, and with little stability,’

That’s Protestantism in general really.

[marshmallow]

You realize that the Pope made his remarks to Lutherans, right? He was not talking about Protestantism in general. He was discussing the subject of Pentecostals and he was contrasting their methods and success with those of "mainstream Christian denominations", to quote the article. This presumably includes not only Catholics but also Lutherans (to whom he was speaking), Anglicans, Episcopals and perhaps others such as Methodists and Presbyterians.

This was not a "Catholics vs Protestants" speech although some apparently would like to spin it as such.

[Campion]

Let the Pope remove his millstone and he’ll be better able to speak.

As if there were really a way for him to do that to the satisfaction of his critics! He's done more to fix the problem than anyone else living, but it's still thrown at him no matter what he says, or whom he says it to.

[RatRipper]

form of Christianity with little institutional depth, little rationality and even less dogmatic content, and with little stability

. . . kinda like the apostles in the beginning, huh?

[nathanbedford]

No, I had not realized that he was speaking to Protestants about other Protestants. That would seem to temper his remarks somewhat but I do not think it wholly cures them of insensitivity (I cannot believe I just used that word!).

Does it matter that it is not a Roman Catholic leader commenting on Protestantism but a Roman Catholic leader with established Protestant church leaders commenting on the fundamentalist and Pentecostal churches?

I suppose much depends on the rest of his remarks to set the context which the article regrettably fails to supply beyond saying that the fundamentalist sects are a phenomenon "for better or worse" (emphasis supplied) who have "converted hundreds of thousands of former Catholics."

In the context as supplied, it is not unreasonable to question the remarks which described these fundamentalist churches as possessing "little... depth... stability....content."

I am willing to accept that the thrust of the pope's remarks have somehow come through distorted but if the fault lies not with His Holiness it must lie with a reporter or editor.

[PetroniusMaximus]

‘This is a form of Christianity with institutional quagmire, overly rationalistic and even less Biblical content, and with little ability to control the sexual appetites of it’s leadership’

Now, who does that sound like?

[vladimir998]

Protestantism again.

[Alex Murphy]

‘This is a form of Christianity with institutional quagmire, overly rationalistic and even less Biblical content, and with little ability to control the sexual appetites of it’s leadership’

Now, who does that sound like?

BWA HAHAHAHA