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To: HarleyD
Those verses say what they say and apply to whoever John was writing about.

But the bottom line is that you don't know who the Holy Spirit convicts and who responds with a refusal and you don't know what the Holy Spirit is doing in someone's life.

None of the verses you have posted validate Calvinist belief. You cannot produce one verse that specifically states that God chooses who He will save and who He will not save.

Until those verses are posted, we have to stick with the facts of Scripture where Jesus said that He died for the entire world, that it is not His will that any perish, and that those who are condemned are condemned because they refused to believe.

Those are the Scriptures that we have and none of them even hint that God chooses who He will save and sends everyone else to hell. You have to be able to produce the Scripture to support your belief or the belief has to be questioned.

187 posted on 08/28/2011 12:27:20 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
You cannot produce one verse that specifically states that God chooses who He will save and who He will not save.

I have given numerous examples and scriptures of God choosing individuals. Did God choose Moses? Did God choose Samuel while in the womb? Samson? How about David? John the Baptist? Did God choose Paul or did Paul choose God (Gal 1:15)? Heck, the whole BIBLE is about A CHOSEN RACE. What does that mean; the Chosen Race choosing God or God choosing a people? How many more examples would you like? Are you willing to tell me that God did not choose these people but that they made a choice?

As far as "God choosing who...He will not save", that has nothing to do with Calvinism, Reformed theology or anything. God condemned the entire race back with Adam. Frankly, you seem to be ignoring the fact that men are already condemned to hell unless you don't believe in original sin (some don't). Adam made the choice and God gave His judgment a long time ago when Adam was tossed out of the garden. And if we were truly honest with ourselves, Adam was a far better person than we could hope to be. So now we're saying that we could make a better choice than Adam even in our fallen state.

Until those verses are posted, we have to stick with the facts of Scripture where Jesus said that He died for the entire world...

It's a bit condescending to make this claim. I have offer you numerous discussion points which you have not responded to. You are "free" to believe what you wish. But you are believing the Pelegius heresy.

Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me,
Joh 10:26 but you do not believe because you are not part of my flock.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

There are people of Christ's flock. There are those who are not. They don't believe BECAUSE they are not part of Christ's flock. Scripture is very clear but you will never understand John 10:25-27 under the Pelegius heresy.

191 posted on 08/28/2011 1:11:27 PM PDT by HarleyD
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