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To: GiovannaNicoletta
God said: He who believes in the Son has eternal life...Would God condemn men to everlasting torment for a decision that He made for them?

Men are already condemn to hell. Adam's race is under bondage. Our Savior came to call us out of our bondage just like He called the Israelites out of their bondage. The Israelites that left Egypt, despite their suffering, wanted nothing more than to go back to Egypt. God took them via the Red Sea just so they wouldn't go back. And when they saw what laid ahead they wanted to turn back to Egypt.

We're not unlike the Israelites except in one very important respect. The only thing that keeps us from wanting to go back to Egypt is the Holy Spirit. God specifically tells us that He will give us a new heart and spirit so that we will walk in His way. It's not our choice because if it was our choice we would choose Egypt.

John 3:16...What does the word "whoever" mean there? If God says that salvation is available to "whoever" believes, then how is He not lying

Read the entire text.

Everyone who believes in the Son has eternal life. Everyone who believes in the Son will not perish but have eternal life. The problem is that NO ONE WILL BELIEVE nor will they want to believe unless the Son is revealed to them. And the reason we don't want to believe is because we love the darkness. If we saw the light of God, we would try to kill it-which we tried to do. This is the very ugly nature of man and we might just as well accept it.

Augustine compares and contrasts the believers against the unbelievers in his Treatise of the Predestination of the Saints:

The only reason we have faith is because God gives us faith. And the only reason we are given faith is so that we might testify to God's mercy and show this mercy through our good works by our belief. It is not anything we have done including anything we may "choose". All that we do is as filthy rags before God.
157 posted on 08/28/2011 7:11:51 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD
I'm sorry but no one has been able to reconcile the Scripture where God clearly states that He provides a way of salvation and it is man's to choose or reject with the Calvinist belief that God pre-selects those who He will save and picks those who will go to Hell. We are born with a sin nature, but we do not have to spend our lives enslaved to that sin nature nor do we have to spend eternity separated from God. The Scriptures clearly state that man has a choice.

Whenever there is a discrepancy between what God says and what man has chosen to believe, we always have to go with what God says. There is not one verse of Scripture that indicates that God makes the choice for man as to eternal destiny. Repeatedly, God says He has provided a way of salvation and it is up to man to choose whether to accept that way or reject it. When God says that it is not His will that any perish, we have to choose to either believe what He says or not believe what He says. If it's not His will that any perish, then He is not going to determine that some will perish and take their option to accept Christ away from them.

From what I've seen on this thread and on previous threads dealing with Calvinism, the impression I'm getting is that people who have this belief system want the responsibility for their eternal destiny taken out of their hands and handed to God. Unfortunately, nowhere in the Bible does God take responsibility for the decision that He has given to man to make. It's extremely risky to believe that one has no control over whether or not to accept Christ's death on the cross as payment for sin; it is taking the risk of a lifetime to go through life believing that we are totally helpless, that we are nothing more than robots, that God made us, tells us that He does not want us to perish, then cruelly decides, while telling no one that He is deciding and by leading people to believe that the decision is theirs, that certain people have been chosen to go to hell after all.

John Calvin, at the time of his death, admitted that he was wrong about atonement. It's too bad that those who still believe his errors haven't heard that he did, at the end, repent.

160 posted on 08/28/2011 7:33:39 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: HarleyD; GiovannaNicoletta

“The only reason we have faith is because God gives us faith.”

Scripture, please. Where does scripture say God gives us saving faith as a gift?


161 posted on 08/28/2011 7:34:53 AM PDT by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
The only reason we have faith is because God gives us faith. And the only reason we are given faith is so that we might testify to God's mercy and show this mercy through our good works by our belief. It is not anything we have done including anything we may "choose". All that we do is as filthy rags before God.

Doctrinolatry
375 posted on 05/29/2013 9:44:08 PM PDT by aruanan
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